Say These Things That Are Helpful, Not Hurtful

Do you ever find yourself short of words when your friend is navigating a difficult season? You want to be there for her, be a good listener, encourage and pray for her, but how can you know with confidence what she actually needs right now?

During this conversation, Lysa TerKeurst and two of her friends Candace Salamone and Melanie Chitwood discuss the dynamics of walking with a friend through hard times. They also cover helpful and unhelpful things to say and questions to ask.

Okay. What you’re about to hear is the introduction to an amazing time with 2 of my friends.
But first, I’m gonna tell you something’s gonna sound like an ad, but it’s not. What if I told you?
There’s something you can participate in, not take, but just participate in.
That decreases your stress, increases immune cells and infection fighting antibodies, and your resistance to disease.
It also triggers endorphins the body’s natural feel good chemicals, which also promote an overall sense of well-being and can even imporarily relieve pain.
That sounds like an ad for, like, some awesome new vitamin or, like, wellness drink or whatever, but it’s not You know what it is?
It’s laughter. And you know how we get laughter, time with our friends.
And on that note, I wanna introduce you to 2 of my, I guess I can call you besties for the resties.
You’re stuck with me forever. 2 of my great, great friends. Melanie Chitwood and Candice Solomon. Welcome, guys.
Thank
you. This is quite a new little situation for us.
Usually, we’re sitting around a table eating food and playing cards and, you know, solving all of our problems together.
But today, we’re actually gonna invite others to join us in our conversations.
And one of the biggest reasons that I wanted to do this conversation today is because the three of us together, we’ve been through a lot and we’ve processed a lot of hard stuff.
Each of us have been through a divorce and had this life altering and quite honestly very unexpected turn of events, and it’s changed a lot about our life.
But one thing that hasn’t changed is our friendship. It’s only gotten deeper through this time.
And I truly believe that god brought us together because he knew that we didn’t just need friends who could sympathize with us, but we needed each other because we knew the depth of feeling and angst and stress that these kinds of life altering events like a divorce can bring.
And so I’m so grateful for you.
I wanna specifically focus on things that are good to say to a friend that are going through a hard time and things that maybe we should avoid saying to someone who’s going through a hard time.
So Mel, I’m gonna look at you first.
Well, I’ve certainly heard some about Definitely have heard some things that I wish people hadn’t said to me.
Um, but, honestly, if if I hadn’t been through what I’ve been through, I probably have said or would say some of the things too.
So I’ll start with one of the things that is hard to hear is you’re gonna get better soon.
Or it’s going to get better soon.
Or when are you gonna feel better, or you should feel better by now?
Or it’s time to move on. Yes. Yeah.
It’s divorce has been the most painful thing I’ve ever been through. I was unexpected.
I was married for 31 years. All of us were married a long time.
And it’s a journey of grief that, um, is is just unexpected.
Um, you think you’re over it and then something happens and you’re right back in the middle of grief.
So lots of triggers. I love your counselor, John Cress’s, um, quote about grief.
Please say that? Yeah. He he says, um, I may not get the words exactly right, but he says grief is like a river.
You just gotta get in it and let it take you where it’s gonna you. Yeah.
And, you know, we’ve processed a lot because I was about a year, year and a half ahead of you in, um, in my divorce and I started going through this cycle, and it doesn’t exactly mirror the cycle, grief cycle that a lot of people talk about.
But there seems to be 4 phases that you go through. And, um,
no matter what kind of grief, I think the listeners need to think about Doesn’t have to be divorce.
It could be losing someone. It could be, um, just a different season of life if, you know, being a empty nester or
Yeah. It could be anything where you thought your life was gonna go this way, or you expected it to feel a certain way.
And then all of a sudden life goes this way.
And a whole different set of emotions hits you really hard.
And I think grief is at the foundation of what we experience when we experience loss of any kind.
Yeah. Um, so I remember talking to you through this.
And the 1st phase for me, and I think you experienced these exact same phases.
So the 1st phase to me was was relief.
Mhmm.
And that may sound strange, but the intensity of trying to save a relationship that in the end couldn’t be saved, but the trauma and the trauma and the chaos around that.
At first, I felt relief. And then after the relief, I felt I started to feel this pretty intense sadness, and I couldn’t even figure out what the sadness was at first.
Then I went through a season of really intense loneliness. Yep.
And it felt like, honestly, it felt so unfair because I felt like I’d already been through enough.
Now why do I have to process all of these hard emotions. You know?
And now I’ve circled all the way through those, and now I’m at a place of healing and maybe relief again.
You know, it’s like relief that the intensity of the sadness and loneliness is gone.
And this time instead of a relief, like, I’m out of the chaos, it’s more a relief of acceptance, like, and maybe hope and maybe hope, yeah, of where I’m at, and I’m grateful for that.
But what’s been so interesting is because we’re at different phases of the journey I’m able to say, oh, you felt the relief?
Yeah. I went through that too. Oh, deep sadness Yep.
And right behind that, I hate to say it’s gonna be loneliness, but then eventually there will be this different kind of relief of acceptance and hope.
So that’s excellent. I do think you’ve gotta let people go through the process.
And and it’s not a linear process. Sometimes you’ll toggle between these feelings that we just described.
So, Mel, if you’d what what would something positive that be something positive that you could say.
If that’s a hard thing to say, like, aren’t you over this yet?
Mhmm.
Then what would be something positive?
Well, one of my favorite things that you say, um, is how can I support you?
It’s my favorite thing that you say.
It’s so much better than what can I do for you, or how can I help you?
Because a lot of times you you don’t know the answer to that. You just wanna feel better.
But how can I support you?
It’s just that sense of I’m bearing this burden with you, or I’ll bear it for you if you can’t bear it right now.
And we definitely have felt that for each other.
I mean, we’ve called each other first thing in the morning where we just wake up with immense grief sitting on our chest and we just are almost panicky.
Can’t make it go away. And, you know Today.
I started the
day that way today. We’re far
into this process. Literally today, I started and knew I could tell you guys right away. This is happening.
I’m heavy. I’m low again, and you guys.
Yeah. It was a big that back. Yeah.
And I think the other thing too that is special is that not only do we understand this journey because we’re all on it together, but we’re also able to process together.
And our bank is already so full of trust with one another.
And we don’t have to go backwards and explain why we’re feeling this way.
We can just state what we’re feeling, and we all truly get it.
And so it’s from that place of truly getting it that if you’re open to a thought or you want advice, we can give it and you can trust that on a whole different level because you know we’ve experienced the depth of pain.
Sometimes I think when people give us advice, it’s it’s can be easy to say. Yeah.
Easy for you to say, but you don’t really know what this feels like. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Or you have an experience this kind of loss.
And so if they’re trying to give advice, but they’ve never experienced this, sometimes that can be really hard to receive.
Yeah. But a bigger factor of that is have they built the trust bank up to where you trust them enough that this advice is gonna be something that is really applicable to the depth of a and your feeling.
Right? And today, that was certainly the case, Candice.
You know, you were you had two people that you could reach out to I think Mel today was the comforter, and I was the bossy one.
I know.
And that’s great. And y’all know me, you said we have the foundation and you know the history.
I didn’t have to explain why I was feeling or even really what I was feeling.
I just kind of had to say this happened And y’all knew the things that you needed to do and say,
absolutely. Moment. And you may be sitting here thinking Well, that must be nice.
Like, I would love to have these 2 friends.
I want want you to know that Milan Candice weren’t in my life at the very beginning of this journey, even though I’ve known Mel for probably 30 years, when our kids went to different schools, we lost touch.
And so and then when we rekindled our relationship, you were still very much married.
And so the lord really put us together in such a unexpected way, but here’s what I wanna say.
If you don’t have friends that you feel like you can really communicate with and process with from the depth of a similar understanding then we wanna be those friends for you today.
And we pray that today’s episode will really comfort something in your heart.
And and give you some things to think about when you’re looking for friends, when you’re praying for friendships, but also how you can be a terrific friend.
And if you’re a terrific friend who says the things that are helpful and not hurtful, then you’ll attract those kinds of friends.
So, Candice, what is something that you would say? A don’t say and then a do say?
Well, my do and don’t are kind of related to each other, and I wanna be really careful because the foundation of What we the 3 of us have and and other close friends is that I know without a doubt, both of you the foundation is Jesus for you.
That is the filter that you are thinking about me through your thinking about anything I share with you and so I know that.
And I and you don’t have to give me a Bible verse for me to know that.
I know that in your character. And so I would say, you know, knowing the friends you’re talking to?
Are you talking to friends that that have a a foundation of that?
So the the don’t is the thing I
I’m gonna say something that you said to me that made me giggle about the Bible versus, yes, Bible versus can give you strength and lift you out of the pit.
But you said to me, don’t say the joy of the lord is my strength because you know that, but Sometimes it just sounds like a platitude.
It does.
And so need before somebody needs to be taught something, they wanna feel understood. Right?
You wanna feel heard and, like, that they are joining me in my pain, not just trying to slap the 1st Band Aid that comes to their mind on it.
And so Christianese to to just not have knee jerk Bible verses.
And again, not that there’s not time and place and I value that and Mel and I were talking.
I think it was yesterday and we’re we’re constantly praying for each other and she had been praying me and she was saying, you know, I’ve been praying for you in this particular situation for weeks and there’s this one verse I’ve been praying.
Well, she had been praying it for before she ever shared it with me, but then we were in a conversation and it was she knew then was the right time, and it was the perfect time.
And then I dove into that section of scripture, I read everything around it and lots of translations to that.
It was the perfect time, but had she shared it just in the moment of just me saying here’s what I’m struggling with.
It it probably would have felt like
Yeah. And it would, like, short circuit, your ability to process the depth of emotions that you were feeling.
And sometimes, the best thing to do is just get it out. And that’s biblical.
I mean, if you look at the Psalms, you know, the lament and it’s just like pouring out our heart to the lord and to a friend, sometimes just getting it out is helpful, but if somebody too quickly quotes a Bible verse or even just a feel good statement or whatever, it can short circuit what you really needed in that conversation.
And that was to be able to get the hard stuff out.
Right. And so I would say that let them know you’re hearing them and that you’re understanding that they’re having a hard time.
And if a Bible verse does come to mind right then, make a note of it in your own mind and do like Mel did and and pray that verse for them and make that truth, but don’t feel like you have to immediately share the Bible verse in order to to sort of justify that you’re coming at it from that standpoint.
I think it’s such a great comfort to know that both of you are praying for me.
And I can honestly say I feel like you pray more words over me, then you speak to me.
And that is such a unique bond to know that someone has your best interest at heart, and maybe you’re in a season where you feel like I don’t even have the words to pray or I’ve run out of the words to pray, or I just feel like I’m saying the same things over and over for, you know, to the lord, but it’s so comforting to me.
When I know, okay, when my faith starts to get shaky, I can go and stand on the faith of these two friends who I know are praying for me.
And so I think that’s beautiful, but I love your advice of wait for the timing to give them that Bible verse.
And if they’ve been praying through that verse for you, that’s just quite a gift.
It is. It is. But but feeling heard often in that moment is the bigger gift to their heart in the moment.
Okay. So that’s your don’t. So what’s your due?
Well, my due is to kind of the same. It’s that reverse.
It’s to hold back and just be that ear and listen and affirm that you’re hearing them affirm that you’re with them that even if you don’t understand what they’re going through that you’re just there and that they can feel whatever they’re feeling that they can have the freedom to feel that and not have to have it neat and tidy.
Yes. That they don’t have to hold it back.
They if they’re feeling sad, if they’re feeling mad, if they’re whatever the feeling is, that they are safe to express it and you’re just there to validate that and validate them and affirm them, but you’re not necessarily trying to fix it for them and particularly fix it with just a sticking a sticky note Bible verse on top of it.
That’s really good. Um, okay. I’ll go next.
I sometimes I just really need to not process the hard stuff, and I just need to have fun.
And I need to laugh. And I need friends who will participate in healthy coping mechanisms for being with me.
You know
what I mean? Healthy coping medicine.
Yeah. Because there’s unhealthy ones for sure.
You know, you’re not gonna find us going out and, like, acting a fool. You know what I mean?
But you’ll be in side. Will be is not helpful.
And it’ll
be more just being silly
a fool.
Yes.
Yes. But it was so good for me to remember how to laugh again.
And that’s why I started off this whole episode. Like, laughter, like the Bible says, is such good medicine.
Laughter does so much for us.
And we talked about all the properties that it helps our immune system and, you know, all of that.
But it also releases those endorphins, and it can make a sense of well-being come into your life.
For just a little bit. And maybe you haven’t had that in a long time.
And I I remember one time Candice that You said something to me that someone spoke over you, and it was really, really harsh and you were playing that over and over and over in your mind.
So what was that statement?
Yeah. I had been told that when I walk into the room that I just suck the fun or the joy out of the room or out of a situation.
And what I was able to do is point to canvas, look at all the times that not only did you not suck the fun out of the room, but you often are the very one that brings it And you lead the charge with silly, and we love that about you.
I have videos.
I was about to say we have many
videos of Candice dancing. I have videos of you dancing on the streets of New York.
No. This sounds like we’re acting full.
Well, we were in one of those machines where the camera circles around you, and it does like a 360 video of a of dancing.
You were definitely participating in the dancing more than Mel and I were. It was fantastic.
I do love your momma. It was your momma.
And then I remember we decided, uh, the 3 of us on New Year’s Day went and went to Philadelphia.
And we ran the Rocky steps. I think Mel was the favorite.
I did not. I did not.
I just filmed. You were the, yeah, you were the video for that day.
But Candice and I ran those steps, and it wasn’t about who can run them faster.
It wasn’t even about Can we run them, you know, faster or get to the top, you know, with, like, this stellar athletic demonstration?
We did, but, um, it was not a stellar athletic situation at all.
But that moment of victory was such a tangible, beautiful moment for me because I felt like in conquering that thing of running the rocky stairs together when when we did it together, it’s like it was a moment of victory.
And sometimes when you’re going through a hard time, it feels like the victory or the redemption is a long ways away.
Yeah. So I think it’s good to have little moments of victory.
That, um, that happen not when you’re perfectly healed, but when you’re in the process. Right?
Uh, I think people who lose someone through death, um, you know, maybe suddenly, maybe an a long illness.
I think they almost sometimes feel guilty. For being happy.
Yeah. I was gonna say that it can be counterintuitive. But it’s okay.
You know, you have permission to be happy.
In the middle of hard things.
Yeah. In the middle of your great.
Yeah. Sara and joy oftentimes have to coexist in the human heart.
And it’s good to have friends that remember that joy is is possible. Yeah.
But sometimes you have to bring the joy and you really do. Can’t just take
it away. I’m a tag on you. At least it’s live. Well, there’s 2 things. 2 things always.
Music? Yes.
There’s usually some kind of dance music Well, because, you know, the greatest movies have awesome soundtracks.
So why not add a little soundtrack? There’s always always soundtrack.
So that’s been very therapeutic.
And there’s a certain game that I think you should get a sponsorship for. I know.
That’ll be good through that. Oh, no. So there is no sponsorship happening today.
So there’s a gang called Monopoly Deal. That Lisa tried to talk me into playing for months.
And I’m like, I am not playing that game. I hate monopoly.
I know. Because when people hear monopoly, they think I’m gonna be sitting for hours.
Game for hours and hours and hours watching paint dry. But this is the monopoly deal card game.
And you can play a whole, uh, what do you call it?
A whole round in, um, in, like, 20 minutes. Yeah. And so it’s a fast.
It’s fast.
And it’s so fun.
Play it everywhere. Yes. We do. We played right before this podcast.
Yeah. We did. I actually. They said that the crew needed a little bit more time, and we’re like, no problem.
And we have cars. Of us had the monopoly deal cards in their purse ready to go, and we did not talk about doing the we deal today.
So planes? In pools. In pools. This
is true.
Any restroom. That’s right. And I think what’s so unique about that is it allows us a healthy way to cope with the hard stuff without even having to talk about the hard stuff.
And, um, and we don’t have, uh, we don’t we don’t have pity on each other when we’re playing this game at all.
We are very competitive.
We are very competitive.
Some of us are really competitive.
And what what that does, if you find something that you enjoy in and often it’s a process.
I know for me, you’re having to rediscover ways to have fun, ways to create your own joy.
But if you’ve been in the long season of something hard or you’ve just gone through something, you may have to rediscover that.
And then you do, and we can play cards and be laughing one minute and almost crying the next.
We can toggle between very serious and very silly in the same hand of cards.
And so if you’ve got if you find something you can do with friends that you can share some joy in, you’ll actually be able to do both.
You know, even I’m thinking of, you know, if you’re hiking or walking, you you’re doing this thing, but you can also process and we definitely do that.
We we don’t just play or just process.
We
play in process. We do it altogether.
That’s true.
And again better than others.
Lisa being the sum.
Okay. Mel is just doing this because I did just win.
But then you won 1 too because we actually played 2 games today. We have a I did. Yeah.
Oh, that’s right. Candice did. Sorry, Mel. I was trying to build you up.
Something my day.
Not your day. But even something like that, like playing cards and having a moment of victory or whatever, lacking and it’s just it gives you a sense of joy or almost just, like I said, victory in the middle.
Normal safe. You know?
Sometimes when you’re going through a hard time, your heart is so heavy and you ache so intensely.
Honestly, I’ve never known this intense ache before. I mean, like, literally physically hurts. Oh, yes.
And you can’t stay in that place forever. It’s just too much. And so these are
little Resbits.
Yeah. Repriefs.
Yeah. Which is awesome. Okay. So that’s my due. It’s like, okay.
We gotta introduce some fun maybe for you if you’ve been through a really long hard season.
It’s been a really long time since you’ve had fun.
Had fun and you can feel like you’ve almost lost yourself. Like, I used to be such a fun person.
If you catch yourself saying that, then that’s an invitation to do something. Do something fun.
And Try some things.
And try some things.
It doesn’t have to be big. That’s right.
No. No. I mean, we play cards. That’s definitely not big.
And it’s not expensive, and it doesn’t require leaving home. Like, just try things.
Yeah. And it doesn’t help us stay in shape or any of that. Definitely not.
Back to having the opposite effect. Some of us.
Okay. That’s a episode for another day.
Um, but here’s one thing that I would say is my don’t.
And like Mel said before, I’m sure I’ve done this, but it’s really hard on me when someone says to me, I’ve been thinking a lot about you And I just I know this is just such a hard season, and you’re just going through so much.
Now here’s the thing. That sentiment is kind, and I know I’ve said that to other people before.
But in that moment, the way it makes me feel is pitiful. Yes.
And I don’t like to feel pitiful because it takes me backwards rather than moving me forward.
A much better thing to say in that moment is something they like about me because I’m already feeling such loss.
When you lose a relationship, especially a relationship that came on the heels of a lot of ejection, and betrayal, and, um, emotional abuse, if that’s the case, you know, um, you start to really feel less and less and less good about yourself.
Yes.
And so it it would be so sweet.
And it is so sweet when someone just steps in, you did it the other day, Mel, you said, um, Lisa, you really know a lot about a lot of things.
You do.
And I was like, I do. And I don’t even remember. Oh, we were talking about yeah.
We were talking about finances, which is not I really don’t know a lot about finances, but I knew about this one change in the inheritance, taxes, and all of this stuff.
That, um, I was like, hey, you need to look into this. And she just quickly stopped.
And she’s like, Lisa, you know a lot about a lot. Yeah.
And And, you know, I think in that moment, instead of pity, like, I know you’re going through such a hard time, Instead of that, it made me remember something that is good about myself.
And it made me remember that that person that I feel like got somewhat lost in this process of grief.
And so that’s what I would recommend for sure.
And that reminds me I totally forgotten about this happening. Uh, I know I shared it.
I know I shared it with Lisa.
I may or may not have shared it with Mel, but in the earlier times of when I was going through the divorce I ran into an old friend from college and hadn’t seen her probably since a few years after college and we decided to have lunch and we We did have lunch.
And in that lunch, she started when she saw my sadness, she was like, there’s something missing from you.
Where is and she started reminding me of all of these things that she remembered about me, things she remembered about me from college, things she remember when we were just out of college and working, she was telling me things that I’d forgotten that employers had said and accomplishments in my jobs and she started calling these things back out of me, and I’m like, wow.
That is who I was, and that’s not how I was feeling anymore.
And that’s still who I am and it’s still who I was in that moment, but that’s not what was on the surface.
And so it’s exactly what you says. Like, you’re already feeling low.
And I didn’t even know I needed that, and then she started reminding me and calling these things out in me.
And you are both good at that too.
You both call out the best and you name the things very specifically, not just like you’re a good person.
But you you think of you notice things that we do and say them.
Yeah.
And that is just really helpful
about you. Which is awesome. Okay.
Well, I wanna end with this because you told us a story about a family member that had cancer and it really resonated with me.
I’ve also had cancer, but the biggest label that I feel like I’ve carried, and this was my resistance for so long to accepting the death of my marriage.
Was I just didn’t want to be a divorced woman, and that label has been so hard on my heart.
And so you told me about a family member who had cancer, and I wanna end with that today because I just think it’s such a good reminder.
Yeah. She when she was going through her cancer, she said one of the hardest things about it.
Now she had surgery and she was going chemo and radiation, all of those things, but she said one of the hardest things was that everywhere she went, she felt like she was cancer.
Like she was the big cancer label walking around and that everybody meant well and they were just ask her about cancer.
Oh, how are you doing? I’m so sorry. I’ve been thinking about your family.
And those again, those are wonderful sentiments, and I had never thought about that that that’s all people are saying.
And she said she just wanted to walk into a room and feel normal and have a normal conversation.
And then as I was going through my divorce, it was the same thing.
I suddenly felt like I was walking into every room or everywhere I was divorced Like, I was wearing a big placard that said, divorce, divorce, divorce, and that everybody you said it earlier was looking at him, like, we’re pinnacle like they felt sorry for me and you just wanna feel normal.
You wanna feel like a whole person, not like something is missing.
So whatever kind of loss it is, you don’t wanna feel like it made you less whole, whether it was an illness, a divorce, an actual loss of death, you know, just a a hard season, the end of a season, whatever that is.
You don’t wanna feel like that made you less whole or less of a normal person.
Yeah. And that can apply even if there’s someone struggling with anxiety, you know, they don’t wanna walk into a room and everybody’s like, oh, anxiety is here or, oh, cancer is or, oh, financial problems is here, or, oh, divorce is now here.
You know? And, um, I wanna be able to walk into a room and have people say things like, cute shoes.
You know? Right. Or what have you been learning lately or, you know, what’s something fun you’re looking forward to?
And it’s That kind of stuff that brings a normalcy and almost an equilibrium back when you’re in a season turmoil.
And I really, really like that example because I think it’s such a good reminder.
Well, Mel and Candice, is there anything last that you’re burning to say. If not, that’s okay.
You can go, nope. I got it all out.
But is there anything else you’re like, I gotta say this before we end today’s episode.
I am gonna say one little thing.
When you go through really hard time like divorce, you can get bitter, and you can get hardhearted.
And you can get vengeful. And And feel justified. Yeah. And often justified.
And there’s a difference between filling that just for a moment. Versus camping out on it.
And one of the things that good friends do is help you not camp out in a place you know you don’t wanna be.
You know, you don’t wanna stay there.
It might feel like it for that moment that that’s where you wanna stay.
But good friends know that’s not who you are. That’s not your character. That’s not where you wanna stay.
That’s
so good. And I feel like we do that really well for each other.
Yeah. Because the last thing you need is for us to jump in the pit with you.
Yeah.
And to say, you know what? Totally. You are so justified and like, yeah.
You should do everything you can to get back at that person. Right?
You should do everything you can to make this wrong right.
But instead of that, we will have that righteous anger with you.
We’ll we’ll say that stinks, or that’s awful, or that should have never been done to you.
But then we’re gonna call you forth to a better place, and you guys do that same thing for me.
You call me forward to a better place, and that’s what good friends do.
Well, this has been so fun.
It has. Thank you.
I thought I kinda feel like we need to do friend talk, like, again. That would be great.
We would love that. Would you really or d get super nervous now?
I would really love that. I would love that.
Well, has been great. I hope what we’ve said is helpful.
And, um, and today, you know, if if you need a friend, that is all these certain qualities that we’ve talked about today be that friend.
And like I said before, when you are that friend, you will attract more friends like you. So thanks, guys.
This been really fun. Thank you.