Kirk Cameron, Jack Hibbs: Having a Biblical Worldview

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Having a Biblical Worldview | Kirk Cameron, Jack Hibbs

Takeaways: Kirk Cameron is joined by Pastor Jack Hibbs to discuss the importance of Christians engaging in culture, leading families well, and how to support our pastors.

  • The Bible Is Bulletproof
  • Why California?
  • Needs for Today
  • Best and Worst Part of Being a Pastor
  • Will God Really Speak to You?
  • Bible and Politics
  • Finding Issues Today in the Bible
  • Stump the Pastor
  • Jack Hibbs Story
  • Discipline Children
  • Praying for Your Children
  • Obedience
  • Fatherly Advice
  • Pastoral Divide and Government
  • Taking Courage
  • Testing the Church
  • Encourage Your Pastors

You. And I know that when people attack the veracity of the Bible, they usually wind up becoming believers.
That’s right because it’s bulletproof. That’s right.
And so I honestly believe that his word from Genesis to Revelation is speaking to us and I believe that it answers every situation of our human existence.
Every question that man can think of the Bible will have the answer to that.
Well, it’s great that we live in Southern California together and I love that you’re not like one of the rats jumping off the sinking ship of California.
You’re saying I’m here to stay, why? Here to stay number one. It’s my home.
I believe God planted me here for a reason.
Second thing, it’s where I got my calling from the Lord to stand and preach the gospel.
And then finally, of course, I can’t think of a greater place than to fight and defend gospel truth, the biblical world view than Southern California.
We’re the laughing stock of a nation because we’re so messed up. That’s where the Christians should be preaching.
Should be teaching, should be shining the light. I mean, it’s a dark place. So let’s shine it.
You know, when I saw, when I saw the boots, I should have known that you’d have a perspective like that.
You, you’re leaning in, you’re, you’re not on the defense, uh, you’re not running from the trouble.
You are leaning into the trouble and you’re leading the way out of it. I love that.
It’s the way to live. It is the way to live. Jack.
You’ve been, you’ve been a pastor for 30 years now and I’ve been to your church many times.
My kids have gone to your church and I just see the spiritual life there. It’s thriving.
That’s not a church that’s just barely surviving. Even through the pandemic.
It was thriving and was even growing during that time uh because of your leadership.
Um but needs within the church today, I think are different than when you first started, right?
When you were in your living room.
Uh What, what have you seen change in terms of what people need out of a church today?
Yeah, this is a great question, by the way, uh the need has changed because the days have gotten exactly what the Bible said.
More difficult. The Bible says in the last days, perilous times will come. So what do we see?
Statistically, what do we see in our culture? What do we see in our educational system, in our politics?
What do we see in what is called church today? Is a rapid decline or departure?
From a biblical world view. So for us standing in the word of God, I, I’m so grateful Kirk that uh the way that I was brought up at Cal Chapel Mesa under Chuck Smith was the word of God.
That’s the standard foundation. So we’ve never moved, we’ve never moved.
What’s happened is that the culture around us has moved, uh the anchor stays the same.
So when it gets darker, that light that we were talking about earlier shines brighter.
And so we’ve seen people gravitate now with bigger problems, more of them.
And yet the beauty is the answer is still the word of God.
So you mentioned how the ministry has, has expanded. It’s because the need has heightened at a time like this.
Thank God that His word is eternal.
It’s still the answer today and people are waking up to, I want truth, Jack in the Bible.
God uses uh the word shepherd to refer to pastors and that, and that’s what you are.
You’re, you’re shepherding uh the sheep of God’s flock, his people, his family.
Um What’s the best part of being a shepherd? And what’s the hardest part about being a shepherd?
Uh I think it’s actually one and the same thing.
Um There’s an intense burden I believe that if you’re called to uh the pastoral ministry to shepherd people, it’s very clear from scripture that you are to tend to them and to teach them.
And so what happens Kirk is that you become burdened with their burdens. So that’s a tough part.
But that’s the very, very, uh part that causes you to speak into their life with the word of God.
I have to remember something. Always a good friend of mine who was a doctor who’s in heaven.
Now reminded me Jack. You can’t, you’ve got to point them to the cross.
You’ve got to love them to the cross and to the word of God.
But, but like a physician, um you can, you didn’t die for them.
You didn’t go to the cross for them, you’ve got to give them to Jesus.
So in every message, every sermon, every Wednesday, every Sunday, every, wherever, that’s my thing is to deliver his truth to them.
And the outcome has got to be based upon them.
And God would, I rather put them in a headlock and make them say the sinner’s prayer.
Well, the, the emotion is there to do that. But I can’t, our God is relational.
He’s personal and they’ve got to come to him personally. It’s not, it’s not a Costco type of salvation.
You need to know Him directly.
And so that’s my burden is to teach them the word of God, trust the Holy Spirit to do the rest.
I, I am the, the delivery boy. You also have a podcast.
You’re on TV, and I have a radio program.
Uh, and in your podcast, uh, the Jack Kids Podcast you say when I get up in the morning to read my Bible, I expect it to answer for me the issues that I’m gonna confront today.
Do, do you really believe that God is going to speak to you through the pages of His word every day?
Literally, every day and the more those days go by, the more that’s true in my life, the truth is always there.
It doesn’t change. But as I conform more to his image by his grace, Kirk, I gotta tell you if II, I actually believe that when I open up the Bible for the day that the events of my life that day, it’s gonna incorporate the Bible.
This is where I get to have boldness in God’s word and in the calling for being a believer.
I kind of think I joke with the congregation that a lot of this is rigged.
We’ve got the truth. He knows what’s next, where to go along with what he presents to us.
I, I love this. And uh II, I want you to justify this.
You say that my Bible deals with politics, it deals with world views, it deals with economics, relationships, the saved and the unsaved.
What books of the Bible are you talking about? Uh just Genesis through revelation. OK. It’s everywhere.
Only 66 books of the Bible which speak in perfect Cohesion authored, you know, some 40 different authors, right?
66 books, not one of them contradict one another. It’s a testimony of the authenticity of God.
And on top of it, what God did is that the scripture says that it’s breathed by the Holy Spirit.
But yet it has the personality of Paul in his authorship, it has the personality of Peter in his authorship or Matthew or Luke or Isaiah for that matter.
So no God who is the creator, who is the savior of the world, the alpha and the Omega has preserved for us, the Bible.
This is what’s awesome about our scriptures is for thousands of years, people have been attacking the Bible.
And if somebody could come up with a real bona fide target kit on why the Bible cannot be trusted, they’d be a billionaire.
But you and I know that when people attack the veracity of the Bible, they usually wind up becoming believers.
That’s right because it’s bulletproof. That’s right.
And so I honestly believe that his word from Genesis to revelation is speaking to us and I believe that it answers every situation of our human existence.
Every question that man can think up the Bible will have the answer to that.
So, so the obvious pushback is, well, if God is speaking, speaking with such unity on issues, uh even controversial issues like politics, um then why is it that when we as Christians talk about politics, it tends to divide us rather than bring us back together.
Yeah. Yeah. Why? Yeah. Why? Yeah, Why? Right. Yeah. Are we, are we just misunderstanding God’s word?
I are there? No, I don’t know if we’re misunderstanding it or if some are choosing to not obey it.
Oh, yeah, I see. I mean, I think if we look at, I mean, look at, look at the life I mentioned Isaiah, look at Isaiah’s life and what he went through.
What about Ezekiel? Look, we want to do a Bible study on Jeremiah.
Uh But look what Jeremiah went through all of these and struggled with the word of God that was in them, but they were commissioned to speak to the public square that’s not changed.
Jesus said, render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God, the things that are gods.
We don’t get that in the West Kirk, the Middle Eastern listener. They know exactly what that means.
We rarely hear it taught in, in the West when Jesus said, render to Caesar the things that are Caesar to God, the things that are gods, the people were in awe because the answer was this, Caesar belongs to God.
It’s not a separation of church and state, so to speak, or this is secular and this is sacred.
Jesus said something that they all recognized was the true answer. Whose image is this?
Whose coin does this belong to?
The actual answer was God Caesar be rendered to Caesar, the things that are Caesar’s and you all guys, all you guys know right.
That Caesar belongs to God. Rome belongs to God. The world belongs to God Caesar’s palace.
Caesars salad all belongs to God.
As a Christian, we can’t go to the index of our Bible and go look up critical race theory.
Uh That’s in the book of Thessalonians.
Ho how as believers do we find spiritual answers to these kinds of issues? Beautiful.
Let’s just take C RT uh Paul uh is waiting for the ministry team to show up in Athens, Greece.
He’s hanging out. He’s got some time. He starts walking the city. You’ve probably been there.
He walks up the uh and uh along the way, there are the pedestals to all of these various gods.
And there’s, there’s the one pedestal that says to the unknown God.
So Paul starts speak, speaking to the Athenians about the God that they do not know.
And he says there in that sermon that this God who has created all men from one blood Him.
There it is, I speak to you about there it is that ends it all.
And, and I if I were to say, if I had a chance to be on national TV.
At this second, I would say you want to put an end to this racism stuff is the fact that we been created from one blood.
There’s no black or white, there’s a very, very minute level of pigmentation that changes us from one from another.
We get the same blood and in what’s known as uh hematology, that is a scientific fact, you can trace the human blood cell back to not only 11, but that one is a female.
And that is a scientific fact. Notice this though, what if I were to say to the audience?
Jesus said before he comes back in the last days, there’ll be ethnos versus ethnos ethnic groups will war against ethnic groups.
Is that not happening? Yes, it is. Is not God’s word true. Based on that. Yes, it is.
He’s also the same God that says you and I through Christ in Christ can be brothers and sisters regardless of our financial situation or skin color.
That’s right. Jack. If you don’t mind, I, I wanna put you in the hot seat for just a minute because, um, I know you can handle it.
I wanna play stump the pastor for just a second. Ok. All right.
Um One of the hardest questions that has been wrestled with for thousands of years is if God is good and he is, why is there evil?
Yeah. The flip side of that is to answer, why is there anything that’s good?
If, if there’s, if any one of us can point to something that’s good, then we have to conclude that there is a good and there’s an evil, I can discern between what’s good and evil if I can discern between what’s good and evil and thus ask the question why is there evil?
Then it presupposes that I know what’s good? That’s right.
So how can I discern and, and, and differentiate between the two that screams what the Bible says?
The Bible says that you and I in the original creation of God, we walked in the light, we knew what good was.
Remember according to the biblical narrative, it says that Satan offered to Eve the choice and it was a really stupid choice.
Let’s be honest, it was the choice between you already know. Good Eve. You wanna know good and evil.
That was his temptation to her. You wanna know good and evil. They no good.
I didn’t know anything else but good.
And so she chose, she exercised her free will to find out, hey, what’s this thing called evil today?
Millennia removed from us thousands of years down the, down the road we are still able today.
I don’t care if you’re an atheist or not. I don’t care who you are.
You know what’s right and what’s wrong based upon some scale of morality.
My question to you is where did that come from? It comes from God.
He says I’ve written eternity on the heart of the human being. Uh You’ve been created.
I don’t believe in God. That’s tough. That’s your problem.
The truth is God created you with his moral likeness, even if you’re an atheist.
Because if somebody came up and slept your kid, you would say as an atheist. Hey, I’m taking you outside.
You wouldn’t stand for that. Where did you get that moral rudder?
The reason why there’s bad and evil, death and decay.
Jesus said it’s an, or it’s from the origins of Satan Jesus said, but however, I’ve come to give you life eternal.
And so, uh it’s something that we can use the presence of evil uh to argue the existence of God.
Now the other, the other stump the pastor come back would be, well, how can your God be a loving God if he allowed such a thing?
Answer God doesn’t make robots. There’s no love exchanged with robots. There’s no meaningful uh relationship with robots.
No one takes a robot out on a date. If you are, there’s something seriously wrong.
Uh If somebody expresses their feelings to you, you appreciate that.
Look, if, if, if, if you have, if you’ve gotta ask your wife, honey, do you love me?
That’s not a good sign. We are relational creatures.
God made us this way and we need to remember that. Here’s another one.
How do I know if a piece if a portion of scripture is uh prescriptive or descriptive?
And by that, I mean, for example, um don’t eat shrimp or bacon.
We love bacon, of course, can we eat bacon now?
But in the Old Testament, it says, uh don’t touch shellfish or pigs.
Uh More specifically it said don’t touch all of this stuff.
You my Jewish people, I’m setting you out as an example from all of the other nations of the world.
And I’m giving you this list now.
It’s interesting that at that period of time, many of those things were not healthy for the consumer, but also the fact that he said I’ve sent you out from all of the other nations of the world.
So for example, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not joking if everybody played basketball on those days, God would have said to them.
Now, I don’t want you to play basketball because you’re on my team. I want you to play football instead.
He set the Jew out in apart.
But now with the New Testament, the fulfillment, listen, the New Testament doesn’t take the place of the Old Testament.
The Old Testament scriptures are 100% true in what is described and taught.
The New Testament is the fulfillment of what was written about.
In fact, at our church, I make it a point to tell the people read your Old Testament because if you don’t read the Old Testament, you can’t know if the New Testament is true.
The Old Testament made the promises the New Testament records those promises.
For example, answering your question, God said this is the covenant I’ve made with you today.
But in the book of Jeremiah, he says, there’s a time coming, we’re not gonna make a new covenant with you and the new one, I’m gonna make will not be written on stone which you guys broke in the wilderness.
He said, I’m gonna write it on the tablet of your heart. And what is that? It’s the New Testament.
So, what does that mean? It means Peter could eat pork, Paul could have a pork chop.
And so can I, how good has God been to your family? Uh, remarkable.
Um, so remarkable that it’s humbling to see God’s goodness. Uh have three grandkids, uh two daughters.
Um Just a remarkable a wife who this month, 43 years, she got 43 years.
We’ve been married and just beyond description, I can tell you I could not be in the ministry without her love and their support and her wisdom.
I met her, listen, when I met her, she was 18 years old and I honestly thought when I saw her Bible, I thought that she had her grandmother’s Bible.
I actually thought it was her grandmother’s Bible. It was so worn out.
She was 18 years old and when I snuck and opened it up and saw her name written in it.
I couldn’t believe it. And so uh Lisa has been that, that pillar in that rock.
And so many times, you know, you, you, you get this vibe too when you, when you present the message, I mean for me it’s Sundays and Wednesdays.
I go home and I wanna quit. You feel like you fail and she just refuses to have it.
She’s strong and she says, uh she tells me the truth, she’s awesome. And so family is great.
Uh We’ve been beyond blessed and continue to be.
And you and your wife wrote this book called Turn Around At Home.
Uh What, what’s the goal of that book? Turn Around at home?
That this book goes through two pendulum swings of our lives, which we think represents a lot of people’s lives.
I grew up in a non Christian home. No mention of God.
She grew up in a, in a first Baptist church in Anaheim, California here and uh two opposite worlds came together.
And so we, we, she brings the legalism. She had a very harsh environment.
She was the baby of nine kids.
And then I came from a live like you want do as you please.
And so uh we interview five different couples, names change to protect the guilty.
And we present this book, turn around at home and uh it’s leaving a spiritual legacy that’s better than what you received.
So even if you didn’t have parents who modeled these things for you, you can be the first link in a brand new chain and you can leave a legacy that’s different from what your parents left you.
That, that’s hope. Absolutely. And, and I love the book because it’s got so many practical ideas for leading our families.
Well, um uh here’s one, you talk about how to discipline in a Godly way for godly results.
Um, that, that’s a tough one for a lot of people. How do I discipline my kids to spank?
To not to spank? I don’t want to create violent Children by that.
Or, or maybe really, this is just all about using my words and time outs and, and why is discipline important?
What, what if we just said? Well, you know, I can see a little kid saying, hey, the Lord forgives.
Why don’t you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Great question. And uh we have, like I said, we have two daughters.
They both came from the same people from the same place. They could not be more different.
Our first born, you could look at her with disapproval and she was crushed, our second born.
Um She would actually pull her pants down to get spanked. Like what are you gonna do about it?
Defiant, strong willed. Here’s the amazing thing about the scripture.
Number one, we are to train up in the train up our Children in the way that they should go.
That means parents know your kids’ personality. Number two, we are to discipline them.
We need to be sensitive and creative and pray prayerful about what that means.
But they should always be disciplined with an explanation.
I’m going go to your room, I’ll be there in a moment.
You’re gonna get a spanking right now because you just punched your sister and you ought not to do that.
So you go think about that and I’ll be there in a moment if we did that, 90% of our disciplinary action is over because when you get up to the room and you say, do you know why you’re gonna get a spanking in a moment?
By that time they’re crying, I did wrong. I shouldn’t have done that.
That mitigates so much of what you then follow through with a spank.
And I actually, the Bible says to spank, your child, people are gonna freak out about that and we didn’t say beat and, and here’s the punch line.
Kids who are not disciplined grow up to be most often. Look at the stats, violent, bitter and angry people.
There is something in the human psyche that when they’ve done wrong and they have suffered for their wrong.
There’s a freedom in their conscience that that now has been lifted from them, so to speak.
It’s a debt that’s been paid.
I got spanked for, for beating up my brother and now I’m good and I go on and this is extremely beneficial to the psyche of a child.
But see, we’ve, we’ve gotten away from my biblical world view of raising our kids.
People hear the word spank they think beat or child abuse. Are you kidding me? The exact opposite?
You love your kid the most, the last thing you ever want is for your child to be mishandled.
What do you say to the parent who says, uh, I’ve raised my kids as best I can in the, in the ways of God and they’ve rejected the faith.
Is there any hope for them? Absolutely. I hear this all the time.
And the first of all, yes, there is hope.
Never give up praying for them, never give up praying for them.
I always ask the parent, are you sure your child knows the gospel?
And they might say, well, my kid’s 13 or my, my kid’s 31.
My question to you is, do they know the gospel? Yes, they know the gospel.
Then you pray for them and you don’t give up, you don’t give up.
You keep praying and you keep being a good witness.
But a lot of parents I see compromise their values in, in the name of love.
And that’s a mistake because kids will often when they begin to come around.
They don’t think that mom and dad are the ones that they can go back to and tie their boat as it were to the anchor because sometimes mom and dad try to be the kid’s best friend.
And when life punches the kid in the face and life will punch the kid in the face someday.
They’re gonna come home because they know that mom and dad, they let me, they really told me the truth which hurt.
But I know they love me. I love that.
When I heard a wise man once say that um when you let your Children um experience the consequences of their poor decisions or when life punches them in the face, like you’ve said, uh it reinforces everything that you have been telling them for all these years.
And the fact that God’s Word is true, we choose to sin, we choose to suffer.
The path of obedience is the path of blessing. Oh, exactly. Dad’s not been lying to me this whole time.
I’ve got to tell you, I love what you just said. Two things are rushing through my mind right now.
Uh I think I’m not sure, but I think it was Mark Twain who said that the old Him or Charles Spurgeon.
Someone said yes. Right. Someone said the older I get the wiser my, my parents become OK.
And the second thing is this, when you first hear the word obedience, you think obedience, how cons, how restrictive is that?
It’s the opposite. Obedience. I’m a big fan of obedience because I found that the secret to obedience is incredible liberty.
Mm. It produces liberty. Totally obedience to God causes freedom and liberty for me in my life.
Now that you’re a grandfather, what advice would you give to the young dad that you were?
What would, what would you tell him? Yeah. Wow. Here it goes.
Um, as a parent, when you, especially again with your first child, 2nd 3rd, it, it, it changes just a bit but when your parents you’re, you’re more like the old Testament.
You’re more like the 10 Commandments put up, especially your first child.
Well, the first one is sit up, sit straight, stop it. Get your finger out of your nose.
Pull your zipper up. Right. You’re all on it.
And the kid is like walking with Moses and then when you become a grandparent, it’s all new Testament.
Oh, my goodness. How far can you get your finger up your nose?
You want some ice cream before bed?
Because I sure do sit down with po, sit down with papa.
There’s, here’s the thing that I would say, young, young dad take a deep breath.
They’re not gonna break, take it easy. Lead them, guide them.
Simply let this be your, your, your rule be as much as you can, Jesus to them.
Show them the grace and the mercy, show them the loving correction and rebuke.
Show them what true discipline is and what grace is.
And there’s times I remember getting this from doctor James Dobson forever ago when my daughter did something that she should have gotten disciplined for, told her to go to her room.
I’ll be there in a moment. She knows what’s coming.
She thought I had just heard Dobson talk about mercy and Grace.
I go up there and I go down to her room, tell her the story and then I say, you know what we’re gonna do.
Go get in the car. Good to get in the car. She doesn’t know what’s up.
We get in the car in those days, there was something called Thrifty and they had the best ice cream in the world I remember and we went and instead she got ice cream and I told her the difference between God’s mercy and God’s grace.
Mercy is I am not gonna give you what you deserve.
Grace is I’m gonna give you an ice cream. This is what you, you do not deserve this ice cream.
You’re gonna get an ice cream. You deserve a spanking, but you’re not going to get a spanking. That’s mercy.
And you could teach your kids this in a real practical way.
Young parent, kids see and live in a technicolor world.
So we don’t need to make it complicated, speak to them in ways that they can touch, feel and taste it.
Jack. Over the last 18 months, we have seen a real divide when it comes to pastors mindsets and their convictions about what it means to shepherd the congregation that God’s given to them.
And when pastors take a stand for biblical truth, um Man, there’s some fall out.
I mean, I there’s a church that I’ve been a part of here in southern California where the pastor was given orders from the city.
The pastor was taken to court the pastor just for keeping his doors open.
When uh he knew that people were hurting, they needed help and you did the same thing but some, some church are like they’re scared to death to do that because they know that they’re gonna get ridiculed online.
They’re going to have people picketing out front or the intendant is gonna drop or the tithing is gonna gonna fall.
Have you experienced that? Some, all of those things? And how do you navigate that?
I’ve experienced the, the attacks, I’ve experienced the criticism.
But when you mentioned the downside to taking a stand that if I take a stand tithing is gonna go down and the people aren’t, people won’t show up.
They’re gonna, they’re not coming to your church anymore. The exact opposite happened.
And um I believe that we’re living in the last days having said that when I look and see the fallout of the COVID experience, all of a sudden I heard from pastors across the United States that it’s better for us to obey the government rather than God.
And what they meant by that was, you know, we do, we need to be, we need to be a good witness and obey the government rather than God on this.
We, we and I didn’t get it. I couldn’t get it. I didn’t understand it.
And they would say you gotta do Romans 13, you gotta honor the authorities. I, we did honor the authorities.
We do honor the authorities. This was an issue that transcended what is called good.
Remember Romans 13 says the powers that have been installed by God as authorities are there for good, right?
When a government such as ours in California said we’re not gonna address the church.
We’re not even gonna say if you guys are essential or non essential, you guys are nothing.
Go sit in the corner. We’ll call you later when you guys can open up when, when our government took that approach.
Um It didn’t surprise me because I believe we’re living in days that are challenging.
But this is what was the marching orders for me?
I was reading my Bible and it jumped off the page.
Jesus said to the church in Philadelphia in the Book of Revelation.
Behold, I’ve set before you an open door that no man can shut.
As soon as I read that I knew exactly what I was supposed to do that no man has the authority to shut the doors of the church that Jesus bought with his blood and he owns and operates it.
And as a, as a pastor that’s called to the ministry who called me, did Calvery Chappel call me.
No, did Chuck Smith call me. No, Jesus called me. It’s his church. He bought it with his blood.
And so I don’t have the authority to shut the doors to a church.
If the next pandemic comes, the beautiful thing about what I’m saying is no matter how painful it’s going to be.
That message from him never changes.
And we had political leaders tell us, thank you for staying open, the stability that the church brought to the community.
Our community suffered less than many other communities because families had a place to go to.
We provided every setting, Kirk, we provided a packed sanctuary. We provided spacing, we provided outdoor venue, 6 ft apart.
Whatever you wanted, you could pick, you could stay in your car. We broadcast the message in your car.
We live streamed worldwide. We provided everything but we couldn’t stop the church. This is the hour of the church.
And from this moment on, at the time of this recording right now, from this moment on every challenge will come for an opportunity for the church to be the church.
We cannot let the world even if it means well violate the scripture.
And then we agree with the world to violate the scripture.
We need to say to them, we are not essential or non essential. You can’t in that group.
We are a transcendent organism created by God that’s called the church.
And we are here to help our community. We are here to pray for the sick.
We are here to teach the word of God. We are actually your greatest ally. We are the church.
We do. We did not close down during the bubonic plague.
Uh We didn’t close down during the 18 sixties in the, in the uh the cholera epidemic throughout Europe.
The church rose to the occasion and what happened during COVID is that it seemingly uh was used by God to show the world in America.
Uh what church and churches stood on the word and what church needed government money and government leadership uh to operate their church.
So I, I hear this and I say, and I know that you, you’re a hero to so many for opening up that church.
Um the pastor of the church that I’ve been a part of same kind of thing.
And you think, well, man, this is a no brainer. That’s what every pastor should do.
Why isn’t it obvious to pastors or maybe it is and they just don’t, do they not have the courage to do it?
Do they feel like this is gonna ruin my, my reputation, um, uh, for the gospel?
If I take a stand on this, I look like I’m, I’m breaking the law but others are saying, but when, but, but you’re, you’re actually discrediting yourself by caving to evil and you’re not protecting and loving your neighbors, which is what a Christian is supposed to do.
What’s the problem? Why are pastors doing what you’re doing?
I’m gonna talk to you right now as though you and I were just alone having coffee. Fear.
Listen, the pastor is either fearful because the board has threatened him.
You’re gonna lose your job if the numbers dip or whatever it might be. I don’t know.
Maybe it’s the pastor thinking that, um, I can’t do this because it’s gonna create controversy. Excuse me?
Your calling is controversial. The book that you’re holding, walk into a restaurant and set it on your table.
People get nervous when they see the Bible. The whole thing, Jesus is controversial.
Isn’t it interesting that when somebody slams their hand in the door? No, nobody shouts Mohammed, nobody shouts Buddha.
If they, if they hit the, the, the hammer on the finger, what do they say, Jesus?
They say Jesus Christ. Why? This is a spiritual issue? It’s a spiritual matter. Ok?
And, and, and the fact is this as a pastor, you’re called to please one, not the congregation, not the board, not anybody else.
Certainly not social media. But believe me, friend, those, those likes that you have on your Facebook page.
Those people really don’t like you probably. And if you have 500,000 friends, they’re not, they’re not your friends.
Just try borrowing money from them. They’re not your friends.
There’s one who’s your friend and in the end, you and I are gonna be judged for our faithfulness to the calling.
And somebody might say, well, that’s, that just sounds brutal. What you’re saying.
We’re living in the last days. This is the time for us to lead. These are critical days, Jack.
What do you say that? What happens to a pastor who watches right to go.
You’re cracking my eggs here, Jack. I don’t know.
Uh, where you, you, you think you can just say things like that.
How would you encourage them when they’re genuinely feeling like I don’t wanna split my congregation in half.
I don’t wanna offend God by violating Romans 13.
And I think this is really what I’m supposed to be doing.
You go to the pulpit and you say friends, family, congregation, church before we go any further today, I need to say something.
And that is Romans 13 is in the Bible and it’s true and I believe every word of it.
In fact, there’s one word I want to point to and it’s the word good.
Our political leaders are given authority over us to do good and shutting the church down is not good.
Where do I get that from?
Acts chapter five and six where the apostle said, it’s time for us to obey God rather than man.
And so church in light of that, I’m gonna stay true to the Bible. I’m gonna follow God.
IIII, I covet all of your prayers.
But from here on out, this church is gonna follow the scriptures, line upon line, precept upon precept.
And we’re gonna trust the Holy Spirit to honor the word of God.
And if you leave God bless you, if you stay God bless you.
But from this moment on this is gonna be a church that is known both in heaven and in hell because we’re gonna obey God and shake up this world and we’re, we’re gonna move forward.
So, uh now let’s open our Bibles and, and let’s get into our study today.
That’s all they need to say. Do you realize that the congregation will say?
They’ll cheer, they’ll cheer, they’ll cheer and, and the board might say that’s gonna cost us money.
They’re gonna start writing checks. Listen, people are gonna say, wait a minute, that’s worthy of my support, prayer and fellowship.
In fact, we’re gonna start going to that church. You know what else?
Uh Jack, can you tell me if you think that, that I’m on or off target here?
I wonder if what was going on.
There was also in terms of whether or not pastors were going to push back was being watched by those who would love to test the strength of the church for future trials that may be coming.
Hey guys, they didn’t even push back though and they just roll right over.
Could that have been a, a little test to see where the soft spots are?
Hey, there’s no resistance over here. That’s the angle we go in next time.
Look, you’re, you, you framed your question because of the knowledge that you have of our American history that came from your study.
You know that King George the third during the revolutionary period finally discovered that the strength of the colonial vision was found in the pulpits of those colonial churches.
The Black Robe Regiment was born and it threatened the crown of England.
And Sam Adams is the one who says that he got his understanding of liberty and freedom from the pulpit.
And so yes, you hit the nail on the head and let’s be honest, we need to wake up to the realization this is not what it’s all about.
The real world that we’re living in is a spiritual world.
And so the enemy is always testing and probing and he will and evil will do this.
It’s, it’s very incremental. Really does evil show up, you know, with red leotards and a and a tail and a pitch fork.
Evil shows up beautifully in increments. Very, very attractive and appealing. This is for your own good.
I think we should wash our hands and if if need be wear a mask and if you need to distance, fine.
Oh and also shut the church, it’s ok to riot in the streets and throw bricks through windows.
But you, you the church can’t sing. Do you remember when we were killed? Can’t sing?
You can yell at police officers in the streets but you can’t sing as soon as that happened, people should have realized there’s something wrong here.
There’s something odd. And you know, again, my background is science.
When you heard experts in this field of virology and experts in the field of virology go at each other because of completely different conclusions.
Experts that told you something was up also.
So bottom line is that we’re, we’re entering into an age where the, the next test for the church uh will be, will be harder than the COVID test.
It’s gonna increase. This has to happen.
And with every turning up of the furnace as it were, the gold is refined, the draw is brought to the top, the, the scum the residue will be skimmed off my word to the church.
Today is prepare. Now for the next test it’s coming. It’s probably already in the mail, Jack.
How can we encourage our pastors? How can we as congregants encourage our pastors.
Congregants need to say pastor, I love you. I’m praying for you. I want you to know pastor.
We get together every night before we dive into our meal.
We make it a point to mention your name before the Lord every day. And we’re praying for our church.
I’m telling you right now. I have received prayer notices like that from people around the world.
I know exactly why we have had success at our church.
It’s because people are praying around the world and in a strange way, encourage your pastor by saying I’ve got your back.
Actually, I’ve got your back. I’ll be back here next Sunday. I’m praying for you. I’m growing.
The greatest word that a pastor can hear is for his congregation to say, you know what, since I’ve been coming, I’m reading my bible more.
I’m seeing a change in my life. I’m growing. I think this is great pastor. Keep it up.
I tell you what, man, there’s no greater thing that’s better than any certificate, diploma or thumbs up. That’s right.
So, so maybe if, uh if somebody is disappointed in the decisions that their pastor is making, maybe you don’t start with, hey, why don’t you be more like this?
No, why don’t you do that instead if you were a real pastor who really believed the, how do you come in and you say I’m, I got your back.
I’m praying for you and I’m growing in your church and uh and you start there. Absolutely.
That makes a big difference. Absolutely.
Imagine you could so encourage your pastor that it winds up changing the trajectory of his ministry, right?
You’re putting wind in his sails and he needs to know. Maybe your pastor just needs to know.
I just need some support. I, I wanna do these things.
I wanna step out there, but I just don’t want to be a lone soldier.
But if I know I got my whole congregation in my corner, maybe that’s all he needs.
What people don’t know, perhaps is pastors that are going to be pastors, really pastors, right?
Um People might think that all that, all we do is what we do on Sunday in the, for one hour.
That’s our life. I have to tell you, delivering the message is the easiest part of my week.
The hardest part is preparing for it and shepherding the flock meeting with people.
And so if people would realize, man, you know what, um I’m going to encourage my pastor and I’m gonna ask him, is there something I can do?
Is there anything that you need from me? How can I help? Pastors need to hear this?
They need to know this because we’re kind of like doctors.
We only hear bad news and we only see sick people.
Nobody comes to us and says pastor, I just want you to know our marriage is doing great.
That doesn’t happen, right? We get 1000 comments to every good comment. There’s 1000 people saying what a jerk.
You’re such a jerk. And somebody will say thank you. You just changed my life.
Jesus three, you changed my life. People don’t realize that. So keep your eye focused on the Lord, right?
And get your answers from him.
But congregation by all means, if your pastor is striving to bring you the truth, encourage him.

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