What Do You Ultimately Want?

Even if we can’t see it, there is a motivation driving everything we do and say. How can we identify what we really want and be aware of how it’s shaping our daily life?

Learn from Lysa TerKeurst, Dr. Joel Muddamalle and Jim Cress in Episode 2 of this six-part series of Therapy & Theology titled “I Want To Be More Self-Aware.” Each week, we’ll hear conversations providing tools for how we can live as the most healthy versions of ourselves.

Welcome to episode 2 in this season of Therapy And Theology where we are talking about self awareness in the last episode We really answered the question or tackled the question.
Why do I do what I don’t want to do? And this episode today is a great follow-up.
It’s what’s really driving this behavior. In other words, what’s the thing underneath the thing?
And that really means what’s my motivation because I’ve found so many times.
It’s not necessarily the thing that we’re dealing with, it’s really about the thing driving the thing.
So we wanna ask the question. What is the real motivation?
So today, of course, I have with me, Doctor Joel Muhamawe, and Jim Crest.
I am really excited about today’s episode, and I would like to kick off we reading a couple of Bible verses.
So the first verse that I want to read is from James 1 verses 14 through 15.
But each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
Verse 15, then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin.
And sin when it is full grown, gives birth to death. And then I wanna read one other verse.
And it’s James chapter 4 starting in verse 1.
What causes fights and quarrels among the don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?
You desire, but you do not have, so you kill.
You covet but you cannot get what you want so you quarrel and fight.
You do not have because you do not ask God.
When you ask, you do not receive because you ask with wrong motives that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
So the reason that I wanted to start off with those Bible verses is because I think it’s time for me to get honest.
I think it’s time for all of us to get honest.
What’s the thing really driving the thing that I don’t want to keep doing.
And yet, I do keep doing it.
And in the season on, um, in this whole series on becoming more self aware, I think it’s really important for us to look at what our motivations really are, asking the question, what is my ultimate motivation?
And I’ll answer that question for me. My ultimate motivation is life. Not death.
And so I think these verses are so important because it says desire gives birth to sin and sin gives birth to death.
And so I have to pay attention to my desires, my motives, my motivations, because my ultimate desire is I want life.
I want a life that honors god I want a life that truly loves people and a life that is fulfilling and purposeful.
So if that is my ultimate desire, then my motivations have to line up with that desire so that it will take me to the life that I really want.
Otherwise, I could spend my life on cheap thrills.
Absolutely.
A very pleasure.
Mhmm.
People pleasing just so that I get what I want. And focusing on me, myself, my wants, my desires.
And, basically, if I do that, if I live a life, that is opposite of what god wants from me.
It’s pointing my life in the direction of a very unfulfilling life, uh, death life.
By the way, imagine at the end of that, that we all know, and you all know, as you’re listening, you’re watching.
So what does it profit, Lisa, or Joel, or Jim?
If we gain the entire world, what we think would be life or safety or autonomy or what have you, What is it gonna profit us in the moment?
The ROI there, the return on our investment, if we were to gain our entire world, But in the end, lose our own soul, and let’s use that word Suque there, my very self of who I I lose myself, pursuing these other pleasures, pursuing these other paths that are not paths for me in in in my desire on a daily basis barring from Paul and Galatians I really want to walk, not live, Pera Pateo is the Greek word.
There’s, you know, I want to walk by the means and the agency of the Holy Spirit, and not in the means and agency of the flesh.
Some days I’m gonna be in the flesh means where I live at times, but my goal, my vision is lord, would you have me do and how to be walking your path and walking in the spirit, not in the flesh?
Yeah. The preposition pair is actually beside or alongside.
So that para Patel is you’re walking alongside with God, with the spirit.
Um, I wanna Lisa is okay if I do a little bit of theological commentary on what you said.
Because I
think it’s so good. And I never thought about it this way.
So I’m like scrambling writing down notes right here. Um, you said your goal is life, right? Not death.
So, um, let’s think about it this way. What is life? Well, life is union with Christ.
John chapter 1 in the beginning was the word. The word is with god. The word was god. Through him.
All things were made without him, nothing was made that has been made. In him was life.
And that life was
the life of men.
Exactly. Right? What is death? Well, death is the greatest consequence in that it is separation from Christ.
It is, um, to be a part from the living Christ. You know? And
so Look, we can still have a beating heart and be walking around.
I mean, obviously, death is gonna Eventually, we all our physical bodies all die, but I’m talking about living dead inside.
That’s right.
And I wanna live full of life and Yeah.
That’s so good. I just love that.
You know, when you talk about there, I just I intrigued me, and I love these conversations with all of us, but you have those 2 Greek words there for bios.
Of of life and and then ZOE, the very essence of life.
So I can have the bios, the biological life.
So good.
You just eloquently painted that. And but the Zoo inside me, the very essence of life is I’m just dead man or dead woman walking as I’ve said often that I’m just in a rut and a rut is nothing but a grave with both ends knocked out of it.
Mhmm.
And how do I want to live? And today really is the 1st day of the rest of your life.
I I wanna choose life to to run on me 30.
There are two paths set before it’s life death, blessing, cursing, choose life that you and your children may live.
So where we are today? Today is a new day to sound. I’m gonna start choosing life.
And I think in order to do this, the exercise that I like to do is I like to chase my decisions all the way down.
I wrote about this exercise in my book the best. Yes. And what it means is, okay.
There’s this desire in front of me.
And this desire in front of me, it may look good, seem good, taste good, feel good, smell good, whatever it is.
So there’s this desire in front of me. And let’s say I participate in that desire.
Mhmm.
And then if I participate in that desire, where is it leading to next?
And where then is it leading to next? And there’s always a multiplicity to the decisions we make.
It’s never just isolated to this one decision. Because this decision will set our life on a pathway.
Whether we realize it or not.
And at first, it doesn’t really feel like that much of a deviation from what we really want because this look good, feels good, seems good, tastes good, whatever it is.
But over time, if it is leading us towards something that is not an alignment with god’s goodness and what’s really good for us, then we are not this this thing, this decision today matters so much more than what we ever give a credit for.
Mhmm. And I remember one time I did this exercise with, um, it was actually with Chick fil A nuggetsauce.
And I knew that let’s say this Chick fil A nugget sauce, I think it costs, like, 25¢ or 50¢, but let’s just say for my brain.
Let’s just say this Chick fil A sauce cost a dollar.
It doesn’t, but let’s just say it cost a dollar.
Every person that comes through the drive through, if the worker is supposed to give one sauce because that’s built into the cost of a sandwich or not or whatever, then there food costs will, you know, be right in line with whatever the cost of that sandwiches and what they charge.
But let’s say that the workers start giving 2 sauces. That doesn’t seem like that big of a deal.
But if they’re giving an extra sauce to every person that comes to the drive thru today and They happen to give that extra sauce to a 1000 customers.
Mhmm. Well, that’s a loss of a $1000 in one day.
If they do the same thing the next day, $2000.
If they do the same thing in a week, $7000.
If they do that same thing, for 10 months, you can see the multiplicity.
So it started off with one little nugget sauce.
No big deal, but it could wind up costing them so much.
And so I like to think in my life, okay.
I’m motivated because I want this, but if I don’t pay attention and play this out.
Where is it ultimately gonna take me? You can do the same thing with calories.
Oh, yeah.
You know, it’s like, okay. No big deal. I’m gonna stop and get this coffee drink.
I don’t wanna pick on Joel again because we thank you so much.
Taco Bell McDonald’s now wearing Starbucks. Which I do love coffee shop knowing you.
Okay. So let’s say there’s this new drink.
Yes.
And it’s, like, 200 calories. No big deal. Right?
Until you start getting it day after day after day after day.
And I think I read somewhere, like, one pound of fat is 35100 calories.
So if you’re adding this, but not taking away the calories, and over time, you had 35100 extra calories.
Well, then that’s a pound. Another 35100, another pound. And sometimes I think we get, like, through a year.
And all of a sudden, we’re like, why am I £10, £15, £20 heavier than what I want to be.
And if we chase that one decision all the way down and we think about it for that year passes, then we could save ourselves a lot of health risk.
Right?
Did you do this on purpose, seriously?
Because, um, this was a 3 minute coaching exercise that some people would pay big money for. No.
No kidding on what you just did.
From the Chick Fil A sauces, I know you all are listening and watching out there, and she said it could be 7000 because and Chick Fil A is only open 6 days a week, so it’d be 6.
I know some of you purists
so too.
Close you caught it. I do listen, but think about that in the exped That’s true.
Well, the exponential thing of it adding up and what are we talking about at one level?
So awareness and getting away from self deception of just counting the costs and saying, little bit of this little bit of this.
And that’s why if you’re at LAX, and you’re on a plane that’s been researched and you get just 2 degrees off in the bad direction and you’re trying to go to LaGuardia, you’ll end up at BWI in Baltimore.
So you’ve said this so well to have the self awareness today, where am I off track?
Some people go to chiropractic once a week or more.
And I said, we need emotional relational and spiritual chiropractic daily to get back in alignment.
And you just had a beautiful exercise that do that self inventory and say, am I out of alignment and we call that in therapy, don’t we?
I’m incongruent incongruent with where I am. I’m out of alignment. Okay.
Gentle Just get back in alignment.
Mhmm. And another reason I think this is so important to pay attention to is because there’s a big difference between a mistake.
Mhmm.
And a pattern of behavior Yeah. That eventually will become what we’re known for. Mhmm.
So for example, like, I may make the mistake of being hot tempered towards someone today.
I may make the mistake of yelling or getting super frustrated or whatever.
So if if that’s a mistake, then it’s not gonna be what I’m known for. I can seek forgiveness.
I can, you know, be repentant. I can decide that I’m gonna really dig inside of myself.
Why did I get this way today and course correct?
If, however, I’m hot tempered today and I yell at someone today and I yell at someone tomorrow and I yell at someone the next day and the next day and the next day And before long, I start to act like an angry person.
Mhmm.
Then eventually, the reality is I become an angry person. Right?
And so if we don’t wanna be known as an angry person or we don’t wanna be known for this kind of behavior or this kind of action, then we’ve gotta start with it.
Like, what is happening today and why am I doing this?
And Here’s some things that I think will be good to weave into your consideration. There’s internal motivations.
So why am I angry? Let’s just say I’m not typically an angry person. She’s an example.
I’m sitting beside my therapist. He can testify. Okay. So I do have issues, though. Lots of them. Okay.
So and that’s why we do therapy in theology, by the way.
That was your original vision. Is it real?
Joel brings the the the, yeah, the theology. You bring the therapy, and I just get free therapy sessions.
It’s really
That’s right. And if you have a belly button, you have issues, can we just be honest?
There’s no non issue person.
Right.
If you’re alive. So
true. Okay. So let’s look at some of those internal motivations.
Like, for the example, like, why are we being angry?
Is it because We are seeking safety and this situation doesn’t make me safe and my reaction or my response to this whole deal is I don’t feel safe.
Therefore, I’m gonna get angry. My motivation is safety, but how I’m getting there could cost me a lot.
So is it safety? Is it security? Is it control? Man, that one really hits me.
Like, when things start to feel out of control, my emotions start to really ratchet up.
Mhmm.
So safety, security control, peace, respect, value, Like, I feel like someone’s being disrespectful or devaluing me.
That can really stir up some kind of way inside of me.
Um, rightness, Am I just so desperate to be right that is that what’s really driving this anger?
Because remember, it’s not about the thing. It’s not about the anger.
It’s like, what is the thing beneath the thing?
Anger’s just that check engine line on the dashboard of your car. Go down below and pull codes. Yeah.
So internally, I’m desiring maybe I’m desiring belonging.
Yeah.
And someone makes me feel rejected. Maybe I’m desiring, um, freedom.
Maybe I’m desiring a a sense of comfort and someone’s denying me that comfort.
So Those are all internal motivations.
But then, of course, out of those internal motivations, then sometimes we have external realities that come out of that.
Like, a motivation. Like, my motivation could be I wanna manage other people’s emotions.
So it’s not that I’m trying to control you.
It’s that I really wanna manage your emotions, which of course leads right into codependency.
I need you to be okay so I can be okay.
But if you’re not okay, then I’m not gonna feel okay.
And I wanna feel okay, so I really need you to be okay. Okay? Mhmm. Right?
And if you’re not, I’m gonna start feeling angry or whatever whatever the thing is for you. So you
really when you said it eloquently, but when I’m doing that, I’m really trying to manage myself.
It looks like I’m trying to manage you. It’s kind of a boomerang as I call it.
I’m really trying to get self regulation because if I don’t think things are cool over here, I can’t be.
That’s rely, I can learn to be self regulated no matter what you’re storming on over here. Mhmm.
But it’s nice to try to control other people in attempt to control my interior world of of my own self.
Mhmm.
Um, so it could be managing other people’s emotions. It could be I wanna avoid people situations or circumstances.
Like, sometimes I will try to keep the peace and make peace because I am so against over here, like, this person who is not peaceful.
So instead of addressing it and having an adult conversation about it, maybe putting some healthy boundaries in place, I’ll avoid.
So my motivation is that my internal motivation is I want peace, but my my up my outward motivation is I wanna stay away from this person because they’re gonna you know, they’re gonna rob me of my peace.
And so, therefore, I’m gonna avoid them rather than address it. Mhmm.
Maybe it’s that we are ruminating over some thing from our past. Right?
And so think through, like, what this is what I’m doing.
What am I really seeking inside of me And so this is what I’m doing.
And then the reason I’m doing this is because I have some motivation inside of me.
And so what is that thing beneath the thing driving the behaviors that we really don’t wanna do?
Yeah.
I think that’s so good. And at the end of the day, to determine all this.
Like, I’m listening to this, and what we absolutely need is a mediator.
We need we need someone to be able to step in and be able to give us clear assessment of all of these internal motivation.
What’s what’s taking place. Um, I wanna start maybe with going back a little bit and going to proverbs, uh, 4 23.
This is what it says. Uh, guard, which the Hebrew word here is Nitzar, guard your heart above all ales, for it is the source of life.
So the motivations, and Lisa, this goes back to that James passage.
The motivations that you and I have are from the wellspring of our heart.
And so This is what the author of problems is saying here. Like, we need to guard this.
We need to be careful of it. Now, um, this is kind of funny.
I was working on uh, a chapter of my book that comes out in a bit, and we’re talking about the Holy Spirit.
And I had this thought halfway through it, and I must have been watching some, like, um, mob movies or something.
But you know, this the moment where the mobsters are all sitting around the table and the conciliary.
Is that what his name is? The conciliary?
I’ve never been in the mob, so
I have no idea what you’re saying.
Okay. So I think the conciliatory comes in and it’s like it’s like the legal person who gives up advice, you know, on what to do and how to do it.
And it almost feels like what we need, uh, spiritually is this type of media, this type of advice giver to step in.
Now, The good news is that the Holy Spirit is not a mobster, and the Holy Spirit is not employed.
But what the Holy Spirit is going to do for us is mediate and bring to recognition what our motivations are.
So for instance, if we aren’t to guard, that’s what we’re told.
We need to guard our hearts and protect our hearts above all things.
Well, we’re unable in our own means to do that by ourselves.
So we need help from that inside of us but outside of us.
And so this is why Jesus in John chapter let’s see. I’m gonna find this.
Jesus in uh, John chapter 4, he says this, that, uh, when the counselor, this is the Greek word pericletos, when the counselor comes, The one I will send to you from the father, the spirit of truth, who proceeds from the father, he will testify about me.
Well, who is the council? Where’s the period kleedos?
This is the Greek word that is described as our advocate or our helper.
Um, this is the person that we summon to give us assistance.
And so, um, really, what we need in order to make sense of our motivations is this mediator, the Holy Spirit, who can do it, uh, do that for us.
And then, at least I wanna go back to James. Uh, because there’s so much wisdom here.
In fact, um, our good friend Shay, uh, Tate Hill actually helped with Well,
you had to get the names did.
I had to I heard me pause. I was like, I’ll go straight to it.
I was like, Shay, Tate Hill.
Uh, but she she shared this passage with us and I’ve we’ve I’ve been obsessed with this ever since, but this is James chapter 3.
And there is this comparison between a type of wisdom or motivations that are driven from below versus above, you know.
And so in James 3, it says this, um, but in starting in verse 14, but if you have bitter envy, and selfish ambition notice where in your heart.
Remember the proverbs passage? There’s always echoes in scripture and patterns have purpose. And here we go.
Don’t boast and deny the truth. Such wisdom does not come from above, but it’s earthly.
In other words, below, it’s unspiritual. It’s demonic.
For where there is, and look at this list, where there’s envy, selfish ambition, where there’s disorder, and every evil practice, these are the things that are coming from below verse 17.
But the wisdom from above, instead of disordered, it’s first pure that it’s peace loving.
It’s gentle, compliant, full of mercy, and good fruits.
It’s unwavering with that pretense, and the fruit of righteousness And remember those motivations, Lisa, that you listed about peace and all these things that we want to notice this?
And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who cultivate peace and that phrase cultivate peace, it it’s about acting in order to create an atmosphere that is rightly ordered.
You know? And and, um, and that is really what we’re longing for.
So as we were thinking about, um, are these these motivations and and managing them and trying to really make sense of
That’s so good.
Gotta think about that.
Yeah. I love that. And asking myself, am I right now in this decision? Am I using earthly wisdom?
Or am I using god’s wisdom?
And, of course, if we’re using god’s wisdom, that’s what the Bible is full of.
Jim, as we wrap up today, what would you say if someone came into your office and said, look, I want to have a more peaceful life and I cannot figure out what I’m doing that is causing me to just have no peace What would you do?
Well, I’m gonna look for again things that may be blocking you, especially the passage Joel just shared.
Uh, what’s blocking peace from being in your life organically, like, blocking the flow even from god, the father, god, the son, god, the holy spirit.
I’m gonna remind be reminded of, uh, Jeremiah use this passage a lot.
And if I may just take it right out of its context and just state it, uh, my the my people, they are treating their wounds superficially in the Hebrew.
It’s a compound fracture. You’re putting a Band Aid on it.
They’re put they’re treating a compound wound superficially saying, what? Peace peace when there is no peace.
So some people are peace fakers. They are peacekeepers and say, what is blocking me?
From having peace made with me, I’m going to take them most of my works with believers, uh, and not always, but I’m gonna take them to good old, uh, in Philippians chapter 4.
For this wonderful passage, hey, dude. Be be anxious. You got some worries and stuff going on. That’s okay.
Don’t be anxious. Come on. It’s very gentle.
Come over here, bring everything you got, and come and present it before god. Just petition.
Say, lord, hear it all is, and what good bookends that the god of peace will then grant me the peace of god or the very peace of Christ.
And by the way, are you obsessing over bad things?
Hey, look, whatever things are right, virtuous of a good report, praise worthy.
You know, those really good things that are there. Brain’s wired for confidence.
In knowing, and it will often gravitate to the negative stuff. Fast to that itty bitty pity committee inside you.
Whatever things are those good things, let your mind dwell on these things.
And I’ll say, where is your thought life? Well, like, what’s blocking you?
And then, of course, If it’s hysterical times, it could be historical.
Maybe you’re still believing scripts running from family of origin rules from the past.
Roles you played in your family, and maybe there are scripts that are rolling there through your brain, automatically, automatically, that it’s time to change the scripts and practices.
We’ve said many times. Right? Nehemiah, 57. And so I took counsel with myself.
You gotta take counsel with yourself and say, wait a minute. I re I do this in my life.
I promise. I refuse that thought. Like, a lot.
I’ll say, I refuse that thought, and here’s what I wanna put in there.
At the end of a second Corinthians 105, taking every thought captive.
And making an obedient to Christ for Martin Luther said it this way.
I can’t keep those thought birds from flying over my head, but I can keep them from making a nest in my hair.
Thank you, Jim. If we want peace, then we need to go where peace exists. Yeah.
We don’t need to just sprinkle a little of this a little of that into our life and think, oh, if I just get this new thing or, oh, if I can just get this new relationship, uh, if I can just reach this new level of education, then I’ll have what I want in my life.
But instead, we need to go where peace exists
and
where does peace exist? Peace exist in praise music.
Mhmm.
Peace exists getting into god’s word. Peace exists in conversations with other godly people. Yes.
Piece exist when we get into therapy.
And if you cannot get into therapy for whatever reason, then listening to this podcast is a great place to be.
If we wanna become more self aware and increase the peace and make our relationships better and just make our life better.
Then we’ve gotta go where peace exists, and I hope we’ve given you some peace today.
What is our real motivation? We wanna live life and a wife that honors god and loves.