Lee Strobel, Joni Eareckson Tada: Where is God When I’m in Pain? | Kirk Cameron on TBN

Lee Strobel and Joni Eareckson Tada join Kirk Cameron to answer the question of why a good God would allow pain and suffering. Is God with us in the hard times and is He able to use the challenges we face? Find out more in this insightful interview on Takeaways with Kirk Cameron on TBN!

Join Kirk Cameron to discuss pressing issues Christians are facing with compassionate, well-informed guests. Together we will find actionable takeaways that we can use today, this week, and this month to bring more of Heaven to Earth.

Why should I trust god if you allowed this to happen?
Who is this god Yeah. That I have believed in? What is he really like?
And then they say, because we lost a child in childbirth 5 years ago.
I wanna know where was god when that happened, or my wife was just diagnosed with breast cancer.
Where’s god in the middle of that? I remember
being on movie set of, uh, the movie left behind that I did, and there was one of the actors there who said that he just cannot believe in God And when I asked him that question, why he would say such a thing, particularly an actor on the the set of a movie about
Oh, god.
About god. He said because I prayed when my sister got leukemia
Yeah.
That god would heal her and he didn’t. Yeah.
And I just can’t believe that there would ever be a god.
We have to relate to that. We have to understand it. That is a traumatic thing.
Yeah. That’s a
real thing.
Let’s deal with that. Let’s talk about that, that trauma is real.
One of the groups of people I’m thinking of are those who do have a belief in god.
They they know that god is real. Yeah.
But their belief in the reality of god or his character has been shaken to the core because of tragedy.
Yeah. I can think of people I know who have experienced a tragedy that is so grieving, that is so extreme, and they’ve gotta be having these huge monumental questions about who is this god Yeah.
That I have believed in. What is he really like if he allows these kinds of things to happen?
What does the book offer to someone like that?
Yeah. You know, you look at other religions.
Look at Eastern religions, and they say that trauma like that or suffering is Maya, which means an illusion.
It’s not real. I would say baloney. Jesus was honest.
Jesus said at one point in this world, you will have trouble.
But then he says, but take courage because I have overcome the world.
So in other words, by his um, uh, resurrection from the dead.
He has established that he is who we claim to be, the unique son of god.
And when we’re going through the kind of tragedies that many of us go through in this world, He is the one we need to turn to.
Why would we not turn to him for comfort, for answers, for, uh, the step to take in life and so forth.
I mean, he he’s saying, take courage. I’ve overcome the world. In other words, I’m here for you.
But I think there’s also intellectual reasons to understand why they’re suffering in the world.
You know, god has existed from eternity past, as god the father, god the son, god the holy spirit, in a perfect love relationship.
And when god decided to create humankind, He said love is the greatest value in the universe.
So I want humans to experience love.
Well, the only way we can do that is if we have free will because love always requires a choice.
You know, when my daughter was little, they used to have a toy called Chadie Kathy. It was a doll.
Remember Chadie and you pull a string on the back and let go and the doll would talk to you.
So she had this down. She pulled a string and let go and the doll would say, I love you.
Hey. Was how good it was, you know? Uh, did that doll love my daughter? No. It was a machine.
It had to say that. It had no choice. That’s not love. Real love involves a choice.
And so god gave us free will, but what have we done with it? We’ve walked away from god.
We’ve heard each other. Mean, I could take my hand and I could feed a hungry person where I could take that same hand and pick up a gun and kill an innocent person.
But it’s a little disingenuous to pick up a gun and kill an innocent person, and then say, god, why do you allow suffering in the world?
Um, we’re the problem. Um, we’ve opened the door to sin permeating the planet and and the evil that has resulted.
This is so this is so good.
Um, someone once reminded me that god is not the author of evil and suffering, but he is the author of a story that has allowed evil Yes.
And suffering. That’s right. We’ve actualized it.
The He had to give us free will for an order for us to love, but the the the result of that could be and has been that we would open the door to sin, that we would be self centered, that we would hurt each other and so forth, and that’s what’s happened.
But there was no other solution to, um, having a world of love, um, uh, unless the free will was given.
Johnny, talk to those who who aren’t familiar with your story. About, uh, what life was like before your accident.
Uh, what what did you like to do, and what was your relationship with god like?
Oh, Kirk. We would have gone camping, hunting, swimming, playing tennis, horseback riding. You name it.
I was quite the athlete. And as such, I guess I was the least likely candidate to, uh, become a quadriplegic, but went for a swim in the Chesapeake Bay with my sister.
Doughlin to shallow water. My head hit a sandy bottom and snapped my head back and crunched my vertebrae, snapped my spinal cord, And I was lying face down in the water paralyzed.
And the next thing I knew, um, my sister was pulling me up out of the water.
I was gasping sputtering near drowning. And doctors told me you’ve broken your neck.
You’re you’re never gonna walk again, or or have use of your cans. My my hands don’t work.
I I wear arm splints to support them, but That was 55 years ago.
And I have to confess Kirk that I thought god was being awfully unfair.
And, But over time, Christians were praying, Christians were loving me, and, uh, slowly, but surely I came up out of depression, And I began to ask people, why should I trust god if he allowed this to happen?
So it was a good question to start me off on this journey.
Wow.
I have known you for years now, and my children have gotten to know you a little bit interning at your disability ministry, Johnny and Friends.
Um, and you’re one of the most inspirational people that I know, and I’ve heard you say things like god permits things that he hates in order to accomplish what he loves.
I’ve heard you say things that I would rather be in this wheelchair knowing Jesus than to be on my feet without him.
Uh, these are things that are so encouraging and inspiring to us, but they’re almost confusing.
Because we don’t understand how you could say those things. And what does make sense is what you just mentioned.
Um, why would god let something like this happen?
Johnny, did you ever feel just downright angry and betrayed by god?
I thought angry. I felt almost betrayed, but to be quite honest, Kirk, I was I was fearful of turning my back on him.
Because I had nowhere else to go. I was paralyzed. I was sitting in the corner feeling sorry for myself.
I needed hope And I knew that if I was to find hope it would have to be in god and god alone.
And I’ll never forget, uh, real quickly, I, I asked a friend of mine, how can any of this be god’s will?
Come on. I mean, I thought god’s will was only for good stuff.
And he said, now wait a minute, Johnny.
Look at what God allowed in the life of his own son Jesus.
He allowed murder, injustice, torture, I mean, real torture and treason.
How can any of that be good in our eyes or even his? But, again, you said it.
God premised what he hates to accomplish something that he loves.
And, yes, he hated the torture, the murder, the, the trees, and the injustice that led up to the crucifixion.
But The world’s worst murder became the world’s only salvation.
And my friend said, Johnny, the same is true in your life or any of our lives.
God doesn’t like spinal credential. He hates suffering. Uh, my goodness.
When when he walked on earth, he spent most of his time trying to relieve it.
So he despises the pain and the anguish, but he will allow it to produce something good in your life.
And I said, well, what could could that possibly be? And he said, how about Christ in you?
I mean, the god of the universe dwelling in you, changing you, turning you from a good, strong, stubborn, hypocritical, self centered teenager.
Into a young woman who by his grace might appreciate something of perseverance, patience, endurance, self control, bravery, courage.
And over time, I began to value those virtues in my life.
And I think that’s when I began to find my smile.
I’ll tell you something, Kirk, that I don’t I haven’t told many people, but I’ve changed my approach to sharing Jesus with people who have intellectual questions.
The way I kinda get into the conversation, I’ll say, let me ask you a question.
If you could ask god any one question and you knew he’d give you an answer right now, what would you ask him?
Well, 80% of the time, they’re gonna ask some permutation of the question, if god is real, why is there suffering in the world?
So what I used to do is say, oh, well, let me tell you why and I would get my full 5 point sermon on why god allows suffering.
I don’t do that anymore. You know what I do? If I ask that question, they say, Yeah.
If god is real, why is there so much suffering in the world?
Instead of giving him a 5 point sermon, I say, wait a minute.
Of all possible questions in the universe, why did you choose that one?
And then they say, because we lost a child in childbirth 5 years ago.
I wanna know where was god when that happened. Or my wife was just diagnosed with breast cancer.
Where’s god in the middle of that?
And that’s when I realized they don’t need a 5 point sermon at that point.
You know what they need? They need me to put my arm around their shoulder and to weep with them and to console them and to relate to them and to love them and to show them grace and to be Jesus to them.
And I found out that in 90% of the time, that’s what they’re looking for.
And I found the most powerful, apologetic is to love people the way that Jesus would love people.
Kirk, I’m gonna tell you a secret that I hope, I hope all of our viewers will employ tomorrow morning when they wake up.
I don’t like being paralyzed. Quadriplegia is hard. I deal with chronic pain.
That’s even harder. It makes my quadriplegia feel like a walk in the park.
And and so when I wake up in the morning and my friends are still in the kitchen brewing, uh, coffee, and I know they’re gonna come into my bedroom in a minute, um, and greet me and give me a bed bath, do my toileting routines, stretch my legs, get me dressed, sit me up in a wheelchair, brush my teeth, blow my nose.
And I’m lying there thinking, god, I don’t have strength for this.
I can’t do this. I don’t want to do this.
And I I cannot do quadriplegia, but I can do all things to you as you strengthen me.
And, Kirk, by 7:35 in the morning, I’ve I’ve got joy that’s already been hard fought for.
But it’s real. It’s profound. It’s deep, and it’s lasting.
And and I think sometimes all of us God has to push us up against the wall, where where we’ve got nowhere else to go, but turn around, face that wall, and start walking through it.
Do the impossible just do the impossible and say, I can’t do this, but I can. I can do all things to you, Jesus, as you strengthen me.
And what do you know? God specializes in doing impossible things, and he will give you that ability to persevere, to endure, to be patient, to move forward, to be courageous, to be brave.
And there’s nothing better than than having those virtues, uh, well up within your heart every morning and get your face on the day.