Am I in Denial That This Relationship Is Unhealthy? With Lysa TerKeurst

How Can We Pray For You? Have you signed up yet?

[related_posts_by_tax title="Don't miss this powerful Message of God"]

Am I in Denial That This Relationship Is Unhealthy? With Lysa TerKeurst

Sometimes we hit a point in a relationship where we realize something must change. But when we’re so close to the situation, it’s easy to slip into denial about what’s really going on and what the best next steps are from here.

In this episode, “Am I in Denial That This Relationship Is Unhealthy?” Lysa TerKeurst; Licensed Professional Counselor Jim Cress; and Proverbs 31 Ministries’ Director of Theological Research, Dr. Joel Muddamalle, will help you navigate relational issues with biblical wisdom and practical tips.

Related Resources:

– If you’ve found yourself dealing with the aftermath of what someone else has done, wondering if things will eventually be made right, Lysa TerKeurst has created a free resource just for you. Download [“When the Person Who Hurt You Got Away With It: 3 Days to Moving Forward”] for free today.

– Having your trust broken can be life-altering, but it doesn’t have to be life-ruining. Discover how by ordering your copy of Lysa TerKeurst’s newest book, [I Want to Trust You, but I Don’t: Moving Forward When You’re Skeptical of Others, Afraid of What God Will Allow, and Doubtful of Your Own Discernment], today.

Well, I promised we would be back to continue this really important conversation, and we were just talking about sometimes we can be in denial over the severity of a situation, or we can be in denial over the fact that it’s not just isolated instances or or a mistake, but rather it really is a pattern.
And sometimes we can live in denial of both of those things.
Now the main thing I want us to always remember is that none of all this that we’re processing none of it is to hinder our relationships, but rather, we want to help our relationships be safe, respectful, and mutually beneficial for both people in the relationship.
So that’s where we are going after the heart of this, and that is using discernment that’s based in wisdom.
Yeah. So it’s not just our opinion.
It’s not just like, oh, this person aggravates me sometimes, or, oh, this person annoys me sometimes, or, oh, this person is difficult sometimes.
This really is about looking and seeing, am I pointing my life in the direction of wisdom or foolishness with the daily actions and reactions that I’m participating in?
And, also, this person that I’m in this relationship with, wisdom or foolishness? Which direction are they headed?
So, Jim, I wanna ask you to continue your thoughts here, because if we are in a relationship where we feel like it’s unhealthy, Maybe the relationship is being pointed because of the dynamics between us in the direction of unwise or foolishness, or maybe it’s that we are seeking wisdom, but the other person is consistently seeking what the Bible would say is foolishness, and there is this great tension that now we’re like, okay.
We’re in a relationship where we can’t keep going like this.
Mhmm.
So what what else is on your list to suggest to people? Like, okay. You’re in a healthy relationship.
Now what? If I’m coming into your office and saying that, what advice are you giving me?
1 of our favorite themes, you’ll probably smile when I say this, is you said, what if we get to the point that we can’t do this?
And, normally, I’m gonna say
Let me let me anticipate what you’re
really saying. Read my mind.
I’m I’m about to read your mind. Lisa, is it can’t or is it won’t?
Right. Because it’ll
won’t keep doing this.
It does feel like can’t. We start with that.
I just can’t do this, but then to move to the boundaries, which we’ve done so much work on.
That’s what this very series is about, and that is to say, and I won’t. I can’t and I won’t go on and do this anymore.
I think that’s really crucial because it’s at that point Mhmm.
Where we shift from I can’t do this to I won’t do this, that that person is positioning themselves to have healthy boundaries and to keep them consistently because they’ve already decided boundaries are necessary.
Necessary. So
I think that distinction is really important.
And we’ve said this. I I feel like we’re on a game show
now, but yet we’re not. We want a boundary, a healthy boundary, and a boundary without a consequence is
A bad suggestion.
And a mere suggestion and just maybe, a thought.
But to say, this is my boundary, and if you do this, I do this little hamburger. Right?
The top bun is, here’s what is okay with me in this relationship.
Bottom bun is here’s what is not okay and I won’t stand for a boundary.
You better have a consequence, not a punishment, but a consequence. And if you do this, here’s the consequence.
That’s adulting, that’s basically adult living.
And the middle piece of meat, that little hamburger is here’s what I’m willing to negotiate.
So when someone again shows you who they are, believe them, believe what you see we’ve said, consider what other people in your life think about it.
We’ve talked earlier about community. So if I’m here, we’re in community, we really are, the 3 of us, to sit and say, hey, this is a sign that I see.
What do you think? And you also know this person, you’ve been around the person I’ve been in relationship with.
Listen, the Bible and the multitude of counselors, wisdom, there’s safety.
What are other people thinking about it or saying, just, you know, how safe do I feel right now?
People get scared, they get scared. Maybe in their own home, if no one’s around, they hear a noise.
How safe do I feel? Just be honest with yourself. How safe do I feel currently in this relationship?
And then after safety, do I feel like word I made up. Am I in relational claustrophobia?
Like, if I’m honest, I just wanna get out.
I don’t feel safe and I feel trapped or this person is manipulating and controlling.
And then finally on this, as far as a sign, like a check engine light on the dashboard of your car, where am I as far as I have put forth and clearly stated some boundaries?
And the person has pushed, manipulated, gone around, cyclically been nice, and then they crossed my boundaries or just simply ignored my boundaries and remember that with the boundary again.
We’ve said it so many times. It’s not to push the other person. I boundaried you.
You don’t boundary another person. It is to keep me safe and throw in agape love there.
My goodness is my job is to seek the other person’s highest good.
If I cosign their unhealthy behavior, then I’m almost in kind of an accomplish to their accomplish to their own sin.
That’s a way to look at it. That’s not judgy, but, yeah, I don’t wanna cosign their behavior.
I think that’s really a great point.
So 1 thing that’s occurring to me is I’m listening, and I said I was gonna bring the experience.
Joel, you’re bringing the theological depth.
Jim, you’re bringing all of the education you have as a licensed professional Christian counselor, and I’m bringing the experience of really experiential wisdom of having gone through this.
So I can tell you that 1 thing that gets me in trouble when I hear you say, you know, really seek the wisdom of other people.
Let other people speak into you.
Safe people. People you trust who’ve proven that they are trustworthy to you. Yeah.
But it’s my responsibility to tell that person the truth
That’s right.
And to not leave out crucial details hoping to minimize what’s being done to me or what I’m experiencing in this relationship.
And and sometimes in my brain that I have this really push and pull or, like, almost tug of war.
It’s like, I want somebody’s wisdom.
I want them to speak into it, but I also kind of wanna protect the integrity of this other person.
I don’t wanna make them feel bad, or I don’t want this other person if if our relationship gets repaired, I don’t want this person to think so negatively That’s
a big 1.
About that person that then they can no longer support me being in this relationship.
And so it’s like, I’ll say some things and want their wisdom, but if I’m not giving them the honest, full truth, then they can’t possibly speak into the situation that I’m in in the same way and tell me what they’re seeing.
Joel, I know you mentioned that it’s really for the goal of unity here because that’s what God’s called us to.
So it’s not just so that this person and I can get along better.
I mean, maybe that’s part of it.
But it really is we need to be following God’s example of moving toward unity, not toward this frustrated, torn apart place.
I mean, love is supposed to bring us together, not rip us apart.
But in some unhealthy relationships, it’s just not even possible. Right?
Right. Yeah. I think 1 of the important things as we talk about relationships is maybe even take a step back and I’ll just be honest and say, um, sometimes I have this thought in my mind y’all that it would be so good to run to the hills, run to the mountains somewhere and just peace out from everybody and just be myself, my wife, my kids and just that’s it.
I don’t have to deal with any other people.
And then I’ll realize I’ve got my wife and my kids, and I’m dealing with other people. You know?
And it’s just like it would be life would be so easy if I didn’t have
to do
it For people. For people. Right?
And yet it dawns on me that, um, 1 of the basic tenets of our faith, our Christianity, is that God is 3 in 1.
We have God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit that are in perfect unity, that are in perfect relationship.
It’s so much so that Jesus in John chapter 17, he prays this prayer.
Listen, this is what he says.
Holy father, keep them in your name which you have given me, that they may be divided? No.
That they may be 1 even as we are 1. And so it’s talking about the sense of unity.
And I like to think of unity, um, not a type of uniformity where everybody looks like carbon copies of each other and we’re robots walking along, um, but think of like a really great musical event that you go to and you’ve got the sound of the harmonies that are taking place of people singing all of their different parts, and and when they all come together, you actually get something way more magnificent than if you just had 1 part of the, um, of the singing happening.
And they all start with tuning before they do anything else in tuning maybe the 1st chair violin.
Because what happens if somebody’s out of tune?
Yeah. Well, you’ve got discord, not in accord. Exactly.
And so I think that’s kind of what’s taking place here, and it’s important for us to see that unity, um, is really a type of harmony.
And I love that the Bible gives us where to set our heart or where to set our mind, where to tune our instruments, or where to attune our relationship to, and that is biblical wisdom.
So this isn’t just opinions. This isn’t just feelings.
This is God is saying, this is wise and this is unwise.
So I would even add just a little bit more to this because sometimes we try to run away from some of the hard things that are in the Bible.
And I kinda like, no, let’s take the whole counsel of the wisdom of scripture.
And Jim, you talked about this earlier, boundaries without consequences are what?
Mere suggestions.
A mere suggestion. And yet sometimes we have created a picture of God in our minds as a God of suggestions, that he’s just given us a whole plethora of suggestions.
Right? Um, and yet what we find over and over and over in the pages of scripture is a God who loves us too much in order for him to just be a God of suggestions, but he’s a God of covenant, a God of loyalty, a God of consequence.
And so the people of Israel, when they sin, they find themselves in the wilderness for 40 years.
I mean, uh, and so I think it’s important for us to see that this concept of unity and doing whatever it takes in order to maintain it is intimately tied to boundaries and keeping them because those consequences are not something purely punitive, but they’re actually meant to be exerted in a way that is gracious that is to call them back into the family.
Redemptive. Redemptive but redemption, true authentic redemption requires a heart change and a change of actions and behavior.
And, Jim, 1 of your the things that you say that I love is trust is rebuilt by time plus believable behavior.
Um, and so all of those things are at work in the family of God.
And it’s not always possible to have unity in our relationships As much as we want that, you know, I believe that we’ve got to first make sure that we are at peace with our heart and God’s heart, and that unity is always possible because we can make choices.
We can’t control the choices of another person, but we can make choices to have that unity between us and God.
So, Jim, if I am coming to see you and I’m saying, okay. I am in an unhealthy relationship.
What can I do about it?
We started again, and we kind of, uh, come back to this theme, believe what you see, seek counsel from other people, uh, seek, uh, pastoral and maybe your small group and others and maybe a close tight network of friends.
Seek counsel from them. Professional counseling is not the only show in town, right?
To seek counsel from people and say, what do you see?
And not just what do you see with this other person, what do you see going on in me?
Where do you see me out of congruence?
Where you say, yeah, now I see this, but it’s like, yeah, you’re you’re you’re not in congruence with what you see.
Uh, find out but the assessment for me as a counselor is so big.
To go in yourself and talk with, uh, in this case, a professional counselor and say, hear what I see.
We’ve said many times before, you gotta collect the dots then connect the dots, then boundaries sometimes can help you correct the dots and say, here’s what I see.
Invite that person and say, would you be willing to come in and sit down with them?
And you don’t have to call it marital or relational counseling.
Let’s get another set of eyes on us and get and if you go to 1 counseling session, that’s a waste of time and money.
Money. It’s gonna do very little.
To maybe have 6 sessions and say, let’s have someone assess where we are.
A manipulating and controlling person has never met a boundary they liked. It is their job and we’re surprised.
It’s their job to cross that boundary.
Salespeople are taught in sales, the sell only begins when the customer says no. We’re bored till you say no.
Now game on. So a therapist, the most controlling person I’ve ever seen cannot hold their breath through about 6 sessions because a good therapist will begin to draw things out like Proverbs 20 verse 5 and that person will show their hand a little bit.
We talk about narcissism. Feed the narcissist. Don’t come at it and just control them or confront them.
Eventually, in about 6 sessions, that person will begin to put a card or 2 on the table so you’re getting some help.
And then just this is so common, so simple, but just ask yourself quietly in your prayer closet, in your car as you’re driving.
Am I honoring God, God’s word, my relationship with God, even in a marriage, is this a mirage or our marriage?
What’s going on? It’s a picture of the world of Christ and his bride. Sometimes we stop at divorce.
Is this right, wrong? Do your own work around that.
But the idea of saying, is this relationship honoring to God while you’re seeking all the counsel?
And sometimes a person quietly says, I don’t believe it is.
I think 1 important thing that you just said is maybe you’re dealing with a narcissist, and then you made the statement, feed the narcissist.
Now I have to tell you, I know exactly what you mean by that statement because you’ve taught me in all the many, many, many sessions that we’ve done on a personal level for me.
Um, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have been able to identify.
I mean, sometimes it’s, like, unhealthy patterns, but sometimes there are bigger issues here.
And just a few years ago, I didn’t know the terms narcissism, or I had this little vague sense, like, oh, that’s somebody who’s too into themselves, or they’re demonstrating pride or whatever.
It goes so much deeper than that.
I wouldn’t have known the term gaslighting, you know, where someone is saying to you like, you’re saying the sky is blue, and they’re saying, no, it’s actually red.
And they know it’s blue.
And they know
The perpetrator, the narcissist knows it’s blue. They’re trying to mess with your mind.
They actually know your truth is right.
And then there’s other terms like codependency, enabling.
You know, there were so many terms that what I was initially just saying, uh, this really doesn’t feel good in a relationship.
I didn’t have the proper terminology or tools to know how to do it deal with it.
And so I think that’s another benefit of going to a counselor and saying, educate me.
Like, maybe I can’t even, within myself, determine the severity of this.
Is this just a selfish tendency that this person has, or is this, am I dealing with something a whole lot more severe here?
And obviously, having the counselor say, what do you see in me?
You know, do you see some things in me that I need to be aware of?
Because it’s it’s a little more than just a hard dynamic inside of a relationship.
And, Lisa, what I love to do around that is, you know, how people come in and this happens so much.
When we did our series and do our series called therapy and theology, People will come in and go, we’ve seen you on that and now I know I can tell my husband’s a narcissist and they’re wanting a vicarious indirect diagnosis by me, which I absolutely, in ethics, refuse to do.
But what I can do is saying, just like I can open God’s word and do this and Joel does this so well and you do this so well and say, let’s see what the word says.
I can say, here are let’s just be at 30, 000 feet.
Here are some of the signs, symptoms, uh, traits of narcissism or borderline personality disorder or other things or depression or codependency and say, if you had it like this and say, here’s some of the things I see, What do you relate to?
See, that good a good therapist is not they believe a good pastor is not gonna say, yep.
They’re a narcissist. Say, here’s here’s some of the signs. What do you see?
And the person does their own self discovery to get back.
Because if I do that, then I’m actually being codependent as a therapist doing their work for them and say, here are some of the signs, you go back, don’t pathologize or Matthew 7, don’t go judge that person, but do be, uh, be judicious in your mind.
Be wise and say, seeing these signs and people will look and say, well, the top 5 signs of narcissism.
They meet 4 of them. I go, how does that impact you?
What do you wanna do with that?
Giving it back, and I believe it’s what Jesus did with the woman at the well in so many places.
Tell me tell me about that. Tell me notice how he was so good. Tell me about your husband.
Now he could have come and said, look, let’s just cut to the chase.
You’re living as a sexually addicted woman. Well, he just didn’t do that. I wanna be like Jesus there. Mhmm.
And say, here’s some of the things. Tell me about this.
Even with a narcissist and feeding the narcissist can be, tell me how the some of your thoughts around this.
What do you think? So you repeat back, so what I’m hearing is you believe this or you do this or you think this is okay.
Well, yeah. They’ll put their cards on the table. Yeah.
That’s really helpful. Well, we promised you more, and I think that we delivered on that, and yet you may still have some more questions, you know?
So I do wanna remind you, we have got a whole series where it’s me and Joel and Jim talking.
It’s called Therapy and Theology. I definitely would recommend that if you have questions around some of these topics that we’ve talked about, like what is a toxic relationship, and how do I know what narcissism is, and what part does codependency play?
And you mentioned gaslighting. What is that?
In so many of the episodes, we have covered some of these deeper topics.
So if you want to stick your toes into some of those issues, I encourage you, listen to some of our previous episodes, but also, I do want to encourage you to find wise counsel in your life.
I certainly have found that in the 2 of you, and I’m so grateful that you’re part of my everyday life.
And so I want you to have that as well.
And when you’re dealing with some of the patterns of behavior in an unhealthy relationship that may require more, just like you would get a medical doctor involved if you needed more serious attention, I think it’s really wise to get a Christian counselor who’s trained in the specific area that you’re wondering, is this possibly part of the dynamic that’s feeding the unhealth of this relationship?
So maybe in listening to us, you’ll find that this isn’t weird to combine therapy and theology.
That’s my goal. Seriously. I say don’t take weird out of therapy. Just take it make it normal.
That’s right.
Yeah.
And so we hope that this will be the appetizer, but that you will also find some wise Christian counselor that can speak into whatever dynamic is feeding that unhealth in your relationship.
So thank you for joining us. God bless you.
And like we said at the beginning of the show, this is not about shoving other people away or labeling other people.
Right? This isn’t about leaving people. This is about loving people well, and that’s what we really wanna do.
Thank you.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Back to top button