When Is It Time To Draw a Boundary?

We can love people … but we can’t change them. So what can we do? Draw necessary, healthy boundaries. Welcome to Therapy & Theology.

It may feel overwhelming or even unloving at times, but what if boundaries are the unlikely thing needed to help your most difficult relationships?

In this three-part series, Lysa TerKeurst, Dr. Joel Muddamalle and licensed counselor Jim Cress are here to help you discern what types of boundaries you may need in your relationships so you can live in the peace you really long for. You’ll be encouraged to find that boundaries aren’t just a good idea; they’re a God idea.

Hi, welcome to another episode of Therapy and Theology.
I’m Lisa Tuur here with Dr Joel Mule and also Jim Crest, who is a professional licensed counselor and my own counselor and my own theologian.
So this is very exciting. Today, we’re gonna be tackling the topic of boundaries.
Now, if you’re note taking person today is a great time to just hit the pause button on this, go get something to take some notes and come back because I really think what we’re gonna be sharing today is gonna be incredibly helpful.
So if you are taking notes, then I want to give you three words to write down on your notes.
First, I want you to write down the word access, then I want you to write down the word responsibility and then I want you to write down the word consequence.
So once you have those three words written down, I wanna just focus on first, these first two words, access and responsibility.
When I started studying the topic of, of boundaries, it wasn’t because I’m an expert on boundaries.
It’s because I was struggling. I had just experienced the depth of a significant relationship and that is what I’m referring to it as because it was a relationship I thought would last a lifetime and then it didn’t.
And the shock of that required me to do a lot of therapeutic work.
And Jim, you and I have worked for years now and met almost on a weekly basis for a really, really long time.
So there was a lot that I had to work through and that I had to walk through.
And part of that was recognizing, I really, I’m not good at boundaries at times.
I’m good in some aspects and I bet you are too.
So let’s first talk about where are you really good at boundaries.
So Joel today, if I said I want you on this video to give everyone the password or the pass code to unlock your uh bank account access, would, would you freely give that to me and Jim and everyone watching?
Probably not. Ok. Why, why would you not freely give that?
Because Britney, my wife would not be happy at all if I did something like that.
Uh But it’s also maybe unwise because, you know, I know the both of you, I’ll probably give it to you guys.
But uh everybody, that’s a little scary.
I don’t know everybody and yeah, so you don’t get that kind of access because you’re not convinced that everyone can be responsible with that kind of access, right?
Ok, Jim. Do you ever watch any kind of um movies or do you have any kind of service where you’re streaming something on your TV?
And you have a pass code that prevents the whole world from accessing that streaming through the subscription that you pay for.
I would like to say yes. But mainly I just spend my time praying and reading the word of God.
Ok. Can we pause and Jim’s Halo, please? Of course. I do. I have several like that. Yeah.
Ok. So today my kids all want the passwords. So they get a freebie. Yeah.
And so do you give it to them? Sometimes I do.
And sometimes, and seriously, I mean, there are things and I’m willing to say, yeah, you can have that.
I don’t need to name the, the ones but others will say no because sometimes it’s already self by saying you get two or three.
I have one that’s two people can use it.
So if I give it out to two or three kids, suddenly I might turn on my television to watch a regular service streaming service that you’ve paid for that I’ve paid for and two of my kids are watching, but you only get two streams.
Guess what? Daddy’s not getting, I’m cut off. That’s why I have a different issue. I’ve got little kids.
And so whenever they get on my stuff, you know, they have all these algorithms and they feed you what’s next.
So when my kids are on my stuff all I get is Coco Meon everywhere, don’t you? Oh, sorry.
So giving people access to your password, your pass codes, um, even the screen on your phone is probably password protected.
Right? And so we’re already doing this really well because giving people too much access without the confidence or assurance of their demonstrated responsibilities leads to frustration at best or bankruptcy at worst.
And me not to be able to maybe see seriously to access what is legitimately mine. Exactly.
So we know how to use the words, access and responsibility really well.
In other words, we know how to do boundaries really well with certain things in our life.
However, there are other areas where this starts to really fall apart.
And for me sometimes in my relationships because maybe it’s the way I’m wired, maybe it’s the role I played in um my childhood home.
Maybe it is my desire to follow scripture and I have a misunderstanding around some of the scriptures.
Um Maybe it’s what I’ve been taught that I’m supposed to give and give and give and never say no.
Um for whatever the reason though, sometimes I give people too much access to me without requiring the right kind of responsibility.
And, and oftentimes this happens in my closest relationships.
And so I think it’s really important as we look at these words to analyze where in my life am I saying something has to change?
I can’t keep doing this or won’t or I won’t keep doing this.
I think I start with, I can’t keep doing this and then I come to therapy and then you say Lisa change, you can’t to therapy and the way seriously.
Ok. Um Or I get to this place where I just think this isn’t sustainable.
Um This is sucking the life out of me.
Um And this is bringing out the worst in me if you’ve caught yourself saying any of those things, I wonder if this is what’s happening.
You have given, I have given level 10 access to someone without requiring them to bring level 10 responsibility.
And so what can happen then if I’m giving level 10 access and someone’s only bringing about a level three responsibility.
This tension, this differential here is, is gonna be felt and equilibrium is gonna wanna be achieved at some point, you can’t live in a constant imbalance, right?
And you’re gonna suffer the effects of giving too much access without requiring the right around of responsibility.
So in the past, what I thought a boundary is I thought wrongly that a boundary is something I need to place on the other person so that they will lift up their responsibility to the access that I’ve granted them.
Now, how many times have you tried to control another person or tell another person what they should do or manipulate them or demand of them or even force a boundary on them and have them change, like from the heart, maybe they’ll change quickly temporarily, maybe a slight behavior.
But really, have you ever been able to really force a change on someone and have them go absolutely forever.
I’m gonna make this change. It usually doesn’t happen.
Maybe when they were like kids who were like two, there was a level of power and they grow up, you know, but there was a level of power.
I look back and I have, you know, grandchildren now and it’s like I feel there is an interesting, it’s seductive level of power.
As a parent, you can actually, you’re physically stronger, you can control.
But as you get to these adult relationships and it’s like, and, and you hinted at this, if I can control or I manipulate or say, hey, let me do this with the boundary and the person seems to obey or honor my boundary for a little bit and then they don’t, I’ve got this false, false hope and false expectation.
Like it really does a number on me to go.
Well, I thought they had totally changed and honor my boundaries.
They weren’t, they were behaving for a little bit and we actually recently just had an issue.
I don’t even think I’d share, share this with you guys.
Uh But my youngest son and uh Lucas we have in our house, uh we call our boundary lines.
So like on the street, we know where you can go and where you can’t go.
Well, the other day I was actually with a theology study day is calling me panicked. I can’t find Luke.
I don’t know where he is. I’ve looked everywhere.
I’ve gone everywhere and she finally is getting ready to actually call like the cops. Basically.
It was, it was that bad.
She was just panicked and he just strolls on and, you know, hey mom, like, where did you go?
And he went to a totally different street that we had no idea because it was outside of our boundaries and it actually created chaos for us because now we didn’t know where he was and he didn’t understand at that time like, hey, here’s the consequences of you not being within our eyesight.
Like here are all the things that could have happened.
You know, you could have, you could have gotten hurt, some worse things could have happened.
And so those boundaries were really important for him. Um And yet he broke them and it caused chaos.
I think that word chaos is a really important word where there is chaos in a relationship.
Usually that’s a sign of a lack of appropriate and healthy boundaries.
So when there is this level 10 access that you’ve given to someone and they’re only bringing level two responsibility, you ultimately cannot control them and make them lift up their responsibility.
If they are unwilling or incapable of doing it, you can make the request and healthy people when you request that they can consider moving up their level of responsibility, they may say yes, but their motivation is from within, they’ve made the decision because they’re willing and capable to do it.
But if someone is unwilling or incapable of doing that, then putting a boundary on them, it’s not gonna work.
And so many times when I look back and say, and I catch myself thinking like, oh, boundaries don’t work for me.
It’s not that boundaries don’t work.
It’s that boundaries don’t work when you try to place them on another person to force them to do something that they’re unwilling or incapable of doing.
So instead, we have to put boundaries safeguards in our life.
And if they’re only bringing level three responsibility, our boundaries need to facilitate, diminishing the access down to level three.
So it matches the level of responsibility that they are bringing.
And then when there is a boundary violation, there has to be a consequence because a boundary without a consequence is a mere suggestion.
Yes, a mere suggestion or might I dare say a bad suggestion?
So that’s why these three words are really important. So we’ve got access responsibility and we’ve got consequences.
Did you make that seriously? I know. Did I ask you, did you make that spell arc?
No, there is an arc. There’s a direction I just, I I that’s my GM is always picking up on these things work.
OK. So carry that thought it is A R C, an arc.
So we’re trying to move forward in healthy ways, an A R K which is an arc like the ark of the covenant or the ark, you know.
Yeah, but it’s not a case. So that’s where yours falls apart. Poetry.
It was a boundary for safety, you know. Oh, there you go.
I’m just saying, I, I like that so we can say an A R C with that sounds like K could be a in terms of like, let’s just stick with Jim.
Ok. So here’s what I want us to really focus on now that we’ve laid this foundation of boundaries.
I think as a Christian woman, I have sometimes gotten tripped up feeling like our boundaries really biblical like is God.
Ok? If we draw boundaries and what about Bible verses that say, you know, we are to lay down our life or our friend.
And then what about when we, we read certain verses that seemed to encourage like 70 times seven, you know, forgive and forgive and forgive 70 times seven.
And so these were really tripping me up as I was trying to process, I knew I needed to put boundaries in my life.
But then I would often feel guilty for it. So guilt was a part of it that was stopping me.
I want us to address that.
The other part that seemed to stop me was placing consequences where there were violated boundaries could potentially cost me something that I felt was too high, a price to pay.
And that’s where I wanna talk and focus in on that.
Because if I feel like if I put this boundary in place and this other person doesn’t want to stay in a relationship with me, they get so frustrated, they walk away.
Then what is that absence gonna feel like?
Because maybe I was depending on them for something that they gave me compare friendship or fun or even a sense of safety or a friendship.
But I’ve had to really unpack that and recognize if I’m feeling that putting healthy boundaries in place would make a person walk away.
Chances are that person is eventually gonna walk away anyhow. So I wanna talk about those two dynamics.
Is it even Godly to have boundaries?
A and then the other side of this is what about the feeling of fear that if I put a boundary in place, then this relationship is gonna not only change in healthy ways but could change in ways that I don’t really want it to change.
So let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about the guilt first. Is this really healthy?
As I was digging into the Bible asking the question?
Is it OK as a Christian to, to have boundaries, what I realized in all of my research is boundaries are not just a good idea, they’re actually a God idea and right from the very beginning God established boundaries in creation.
So Joel, I know you love to talk about this and we can see what boundaries are, is a separation between this and this, right?
And so even as God established creation, before humans and relationships were even formed, let’s look at some of the boundaries from Genesis, one that were established.
And so uh have these two words in mind disorder and order. I think those are important words.
And so right off the bat in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and the earth was without form and void and darkness was over the face of the deep, the uh and the spirit of that was hovering over the face of the waters.
Another really important just background information. Waters in the ancient near east always were symbolic of chaos, disorder and destruction.
Um The sea was a dangerous place to, to be near the.
These are the very first things that God does in all of creation.
And God said, let there be light and there was light and God saw that light was good and this and God separated the light from the darkness.
And then we go later in verse six and God said, let there be an expanse in the midst of waters.
And then he does this, let it separate from the waters from the waters.
And then uh in verse nine, and God said, let the waters of the heavens be gathered together into one place and let the dry land appear.
So we have the separation between water and land and it goes on and on from the heavens and the skies and earth creatures and, and sea creatures.
And so right off the very bat, we have this uh this painting, this picture of a God who cares about order, a God who is always taking the chaos of creation and turning that chaos into a type of creation that is rightly ordered.
And it seems here that the means by which He does this right off the bat is through the principal boundaries.
He’s separating and he’s creating uh guidelines for them. And then we go on into Genesis two.
And we see in the very first recorded conversation that God has with Adam, he says to Adam, you are free because God is in establishing boundaries in the context of restriction.
He’s not a restrictive God. He is a God of freedom.
So he’s establishing the parameters of freedom and within those parameters of freedom.
God says you are free to eat from any of the trees in the garden, but you must not eat from this one tree that is in the center of the garden.
And it’s called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
This this boundary or this restriction that God gives in the middle of freedom is not because He’s a killjoy God, it’s, it’s out of protection for Adam.
And so there’s one mindset, one mindset that I want us to shift right away when we establish a boundary in a relationship, when we put a boundary on what we are and are not willing to accept or what we are or are not willing to give in a relationship.
Recognizing that we are not limitless, only God is limitless.
It, it should never be for the purpose of restriction and to punish another person or to push another person away or to shame another person or to even control or manipulate another person because we don’t want to set these boundaries with the intent of of restriction.
What we’re trying need to do is establish safety and trust.
In other words, it should be done for the purpose of protection.
We need to protect what is limited so that we can keep ourselves from becoming bankrupt when I become bankrupt.
Emotionally, I’m just way spent emotionally. I you will not get the best of who I am.
And that’s also showing that I am not exercising self control.
And one of the evidences of God’s spirit in me should be self control.
So boundaries are for protection, not only protection over me, so I can keep the best of who I am front and center in my relationships with other people, but also protection over this relationship.
We don’t want to protect what is toxic, we want to protect what is healthy, so good.
Um And I think an important thing that you talked about with boundaries is that boundaries always have consequences.
Um And, and again, it’s just these principles that we have to keep in mind that God is a God who is kind, he speaks in a language of freedom.
Um And it’s like, yo, of all the things, here’s the what like you could do everything, but the one thing you can’t do is this one thing and I know we’re gonna talk about this later, Lisa.
But the consequence of sin of breaking the one boundary that was there led to their um their being sent out Adam and Eve being sent out of the Garden of Eden.
I catch this in uh chapter three verse 24.
Um He drove out it could be, he said he sent out the man and at the east of the Garden of Eden, he placed the chair and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way of the tree of life.
And so here we have the another boundary that’s set in place. A big one, a pretty massive one.
But here’s where I think this is so important is that again, if every boundary that God puts in place is for the purpose of order, right order and our ultimate good here, this isn’t a sign of they’re um never returning to Eden in a negative punitive way.
Purely there is consequence, but it’s also a protection less they eat of the tree of life and live an eternal separation from God.
So the boundary was once again placed for their ultimate good.
Yeah, because we have to remember there were two trees in the center of the garden, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
They were told not to eat from that.
There was also the tree of life and they were allowed to eat from that.
The tree of life perpetuated them in their state when they were in perfection.
And in connection with God, it perpetuated that state for eternity.
So once they chose to violate the boundary and they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Now, sin has entered in and out of God’s mercy.
He says, they must not also stay in the garden and be allowed to.
Now in this state of separation from God and sin and the consequences of sin God in His mercy.
He didn’t want them to be perpetuated for all eternity.
And that so he said, you, they must not be allowed to take from the tree of life now.
So God sent them out of the garden and protected them from in that current state, taking from the tree of life and just from the Adam and Eve standpoint, you’ve taught me this Lisa is think of the humanity of it.
If I’m Adam and Eve, when I’m walking out of Eden, as I look over my shoulder and I see that flaming sword and the chair beam right there.
I am thinking how cruel is God? That’s the human tendency. That’s, that stinks.
I’m never gonna be back and yet a right shift of mind is how kind of God to protect me from going back to a place that could ultimately be my, my total ruin, everlasting ruin.
And I wanna connect to that in this way practically.
That’s why I love how you put that because that is what we do.
I think with people, which is if you have a boundary and you think of agape love seeking the other person’s highest good.
And if someone has a boundary, not, they’re not bounding me as we’ve said, but they put a boundary up actually loving me.
Well, by saying, you don’t get to means a strong word here, you don’t get to sin against me.
So I’m going to have this boundary up then like you said they were doing about how awful that God would do that.
People will do that all day long ago. How dare you have that boundary with me?
You shouldn’t do that or is it biblical?
You know, it’s like, it’s like, so what would happen there in Eden?
What I love is that we deal with people just a manipulating and controlling person has never met a boundary they liked or that they didn’t want to try to get across